On The Water Drills Question

[old] Jemnenycricket · Post by **[old] Jemnenycricket** » April 5th, 2005, 9:04 pm

Not sure if this is the right forum to post this in.. but it IS training Hey, I'm assistant coach for my crew team and they are fabulous (unbiased oppinion ) - but I was thinking today for on-the-water drills that I could do to improve leg use. All I could think of were two - - butt-off-the-seat drill (four of the eight back it for 8 strokes, then the other four row) - legs only rowing Does anyone know any good drills for an eight that would focus on using their legs? Thanks!

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » April 5th, 2005, 9:26 pm

How do you row with butt off the seat?

[old] Nixon · Post by **[old] Nixon** » April 5th, 2005, 10:12 pm

i'm a rower, not a coach, but something my coach did was have us work on suspension, and have us get off our seat, sit up at the catch, then take a stroke and make ourselves us suspension and just use the legs and arms, well they are taking the stroke there but will be in mid air. also we did where you shoot your but out. for a bunch of strokes, then go back and we use our legs more. i hope you understand what i mean.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » April 5th, 2005, 10:42 pm

Okay I get that. What I am wondering is how you get back "on" the seat.

[old] Cran · Post by **[old] Cran** » April 6th, 2005, 5:13 am

Legs only rowing is what I would tend to use. Also work on long catches, squaring early, square blades, putting the blade in on the way forwards to make sure they are not missing the first part of the leg drive by rowing in. If they can't square early enough, do 1/2 slide and once they can square early enough for 1/2 slide go back to full slide. Not exactly a leg drive exercise, but getting clean catches means they are able to make use of the leg drive. Re getting back on the seat, not a problem in a boat, not sure why, but it just isn't. On an erg just use a bungie from the back of the seat to the back of your shirt collar and the seat will follow you. Screaming Eagles: (nothing to do with leg drive but fun to watch, esp. if it goes wrong ) Must be done all 8 if done at all. Remove your feet from the shoes and place them on top. When ready, take 5 very full press strokes and let it run. Immediately when you start to glide, everyone must quickly and smoothly shove their handle under their outside leg and pin the oar in the squared position so it's off the water, and then place their outstretched arms over their heads, palms-out. All 8 must then beat their arms up and down (5-10 times) like wings TOGETHER and scream.

[old] Mel Harbour · Post by **[old] Mel Harbour** » April 6th, 2005, 7:20 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Jemnenycricket @ Apr 5 2005, 08:04 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Not sure if this is the right forum to post this in.. but it IS training Hey, I'm assistant coach for my crew team and they are fabulous (unbiased oppinion ) - but I was thinking today for on-the-water drills that I could do to improve leg use. All I could think of were two - - butt-off-the-seat drill (four of the eight back it for 8 strokes, then the other four row) - legs only rowing Does anyone know any good drills for an eight that would focus on using their legs? Thanks! </td></tr></table> It really depends on what the reason for the 'lack of leg use' actually is. Usually the best way to improve someone's rowing is just to talk to them as they're rowing along and get them to make slight changes as they go. I wouldn't get over-obsessed by drills. If you are going to use drills or exercises to highlight particular sensations, you need to know pretty accurately what it is that the people are doing 'wrong', and what you want them to be doing once they're rowing 'better'. If you can explain these, then I can probably suggest what you might need to do to improve some of them. Mel

[old] allapologies916 · Post by **[old] allapologies916** » April 6th, 2005, 9:07 pm

Im a rower, and one thing that we did to learn what it felt like to properly initiate the legs was to do this drill: One by one starting with stroke, have the rower grip the oar normally, and then the coxswain grips the oar tight and holds on. Slowly, stroke initiates the stroke and they should lift themselves off the seat. Then, stroke holds sevens oar, and so on... etc, hard to explain on here. Also, one thing I taught my self, was to do steady state pieces, except when rowing focus on pushing only with the legs. I tried to make myself feel like my arms weren't even pulling.

[old] gorow9 · Post by **[old] gorow9** » April 7th, 2005, 4:04 pm

I'm a rower and I think that the simple pause drill helps because if you pause in the drive after legs then body then arms each part of the stroke can't lack so much. Hope that helps ~Sara

[old] makesureyoudoitright · Post by **[old] makesureyoudoitright** » April 7th, 2005, 5:51 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Cran @ Apr 6 2005, 04:13 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Must be done all 8 if done at all. Remove your feet from the shoes and place them on top. When ready, take 5 very full press strokes and let it run. Immediately when you start to glide, everyone must quickly and smoothly shove their handle under their outside leg and pin the oar in the squared position so it's off the water, and then place their outstretched arms over their heads, palms-out. All 8 must then beat their arms up and down (5-10 times) like wings TOGETHER and scream. </td></tr></table> What??

[old] gorow9 · Post by **[old] gorow9** » April 7th, 2005, 7:19 pm

Oh yea don't tell my coach about the bird drill... I just got back from practice and I'd say find a really windy and really coppy day with a really strong current... like today for me. (we were downgraded to the floating bathtubs and dolphins) and make them do their drills in that... you have to use your legs so much more- also make them row on the square so they have to have enough power to move and balance enough to be on the square. It ought to be ammusing to watch. ~Sara~

[old] Jemnenycricket · Post by **[old] Jemnenycricket** » April 7th, 2005, 9:36 pm

Wow, thanks guys! Mel - it's not so much that anything's 'wrong' in particular (I mean..always room for improvement, obviously), just the way practice is set up I tend to run a focus drill on anything from leg-use, to set, to following, then do a race piece, followed by another drill, then race pieces for the rest of practice. I suppose we have a rower not getting a long enough stroke, and a main thing i notice is just that the hands don't move in sync with the butt.... like, they shoot back with their legs, then their arms come after, so the power comes from the arms not the legs (just a millisecond, and only sometimes, but that's my indicator that leg use could be better) allapologies - i like that idea... added resistance, new way to get the butt off the seat... I'll try it! Thanks! and I can't remember everyone's name, but thanks all! I like the idea of rowing half slide for early roll-up, too... we could use a little work on that in the boat. And the rough water idea. and the quick-slide..and.... yeah. all of y'all. Thanks so much!

[old] Mel Harbour · Post by **[old] Mel Harbour** » April 8th, 2005, 7:33 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Jemnenycricket @ Apr 7 2005, 08:36 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Wow, thanks guys! Mel - it's not so much that anything's 'wrong' in particular (I mean..always room for improvement, obviously), just the way practice is set up I tend to run a focus drill on anything from leg-use, to set, to following, then do a race piece, followed by another drill, then race pieces for the rest of practice. I suppose we have a rower not getting a long enough stroke, and a main thing i notice is just that the hands don't move in sync with the butt.... like, they shoot back with their legs, then their arms come after, so the power comes from the arms not the legs (just a millisecond, and only sometimes, but that's my indicator that leg use could be better) </td></tr></table> If that's what you're seeing, performing a lot of the exercises described on this thread will probably tend to exacerbate the problem. You're describing the rowers having a poor connection through the torso at the front end of the stroke, not a lack of leg use. I would have the rowers keep rowing continuously for a sustained period of time. First talk about preparation for the catch. Perhaps have them pause at at least 1/2 slide on the recovery, if not 3/4 slide (although that's quite tricky!). Then they should make a positive effort to relax most of the muscles, but think of gripping with the stomach muscles. If they can learn to do it at 3/4 slide, it's better. The more they can relax the legs, the better they will be able to just let the momentum of the boat take them out into frontstops without falling into the trap of trying to slow themselves down over the last couple of inches of the slide. As the blades enter the water they should be really concentrating on making sure they have a feeling of gripping with the stomach muscles. Then talk to them about having a feeling of pressing vertically down on the shell. This should be a delicate feeling (imagine the boat is made of chocolate). They should aim to have a feeling of pressing downwards for as long as possible without moving backwards. NOTE this is not what is actually happening, it's just what it feels like. Eventually they will feel like the resistance drops and they should drive backwards hard with both legs and backs pretty much simultaneously. Phrase while coaching could be 'toes then quads'. You should also work with them during land training to build up their lower abs and gluteals. Mel

[old] Jemnenycricket · Post by **[old] Jemnenycricket** » April 20th, 2005, 1:49 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Mel Harbour @ Apr 8 2005, 06:33 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Jemnenycricket @ Apr 7 2005, 08:36 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Wow, thanks guys! Mel - it's not so much that anything's 'wrong' in particular (I mean..always room for improvement, obviously), just the way practice is set up I tend to run a focus drill on anything from leg-use, to set, to following, then do a race piece, followed by another drill, then race pieces for the rest of practice. I suppose we have a rower not getting a long enough stroke, and a main thing i notice is just that the hands don't move in sync with the butt.... like, they shoot back with their legs, then their arms come after, so the power comes from the arms not the legs (just a millisecond, and only sometimes, but that's my indicator that leg use could be better) </td></tr></table> If that's what you're seeing, performing a lot of the exercises described on this thread will probably tend to exacerbate the problem. You're describing the rowers having a poor connection through the torso at the front end of the stroke, not a lack of leg use. I would have the rowers keep rowing continuously for a sustained period of time. First talk about preparation for the catch. Perhaps have them pause at at least 1/2 slide on the recovery, if not 3/4 slide (although that's quite tricky!). Then they should make a positive effort to relax most of the muscles, but think of gripping with the stomach muscles. If they can learn to do it at 3/4 slide, it's better. The more they can relax the legs, the better they will be able to just let the momentum of the boat take them out into frontstops without falling into the trap of trying to slow themselves down over the last couple of inches of the slide. As the blades enter the water they should be really concentrating on making sure they have a feeling of gripping with the stomach muscles. Then talk to them about having a feeling of pressing vertically down on the shell. This should be a delicate feeling (imagine the boat is made of chocolate). They should aim to have a feeling of pressing downwards for as long as possible without moving backwards. NOTE this is not what is actually happening, it's just what it feels like. Eventually they will feel like the resistance drops and they should drive backwards hard with both legs and backs pretty much simultaneously. Phrase while coaching could be 'toes then quads'. You should also work with them during land training to build up their lower abs and gluteals. Mel </td></tr></table> Sorry for the delay in reply, but I wanted to try it out before I responded. We worked on the strong core this morning...and Wow! Thanks so much for suggesting this - what a difference. We worked on it in pairs, and slowly each individual got it. We had trouble transferring it to when they rowed all eight, but I'm sure with practice that'll come along. Thank you! It was wicked helpful

[old] Mel Harbour · Post by **[old] Mel Harbour** » April 21st, 2005, 4:34 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Jemnenycricket @ Apr 20 2005, 12:49 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Sorry for the delay in reply, but I wanted to try it out before I responded. We worked on the strong core this morning...and Wow! Thanks so much for suggesting this - what a difference. We worked on it in pairs, and slowly each individual got it. We had trouble transferring it to when they rowed all eight, but I'm sure with practice that'll come along. Thank you! It was wicked helpful </td></tr></table> No worries, glad to help. It is definitely true that your crews will find it much harder to do all eight at first. This is largely a confidence thing as much as anything. People feel uncomfortable and unbalanced being out at frontstops, especially once you've taken the 'stabilisers' away. The tendency is then to rush out of frontstops because you feel subconsciously 'safer' as you get away from frontstops. It takes quite a long time to overcome this fully. Another option is to try getting all eight to sit blades covered at half slide, back down slightly, then take the stroke on but making sure there is absolutely no early ripping of the blades. You need to get the feeling of just pressing and waiting for the boat to start moving. It's an exercise that works particularly well in single sculls as it helps the rower develop a really good feeling for how to drive in a smooth balanced manner. Mel

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