New Personal Best! Brag About That New Pb!

[MartinSH4321]

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The rating was on the low side but the more I think about and the more research I do the more I think a lower rating is OK for me. We both are stronger than fit (you're more balanced of course ) and therefore don't have to rate high and expend energy pushing our bodyweight up and down the rail. I did a quick research at the C2 rankings and looked for very strong 30' workouts (+8600m), I found many ratings of 25-27, only a few above. As they are much faster than me they have a more powerful stroke than me (SPI of 12-14 vs. me around 11 at R22-23). I'm sure they are that much fitter than me, but I doubt they are all that much stronger. Maybe I forgot something in my calculation, I'll slowly raise my rating and see how that feels

Good luck for your coming FM, your long rows looked very promising!

I agree - the other rowers are probably not much stronger, but they might be taller and so have a longer stroke. The work done is the area under the curve, so a longer distance would equate to more work per stroke.

You may have to choose taller parents!

That's a good point Max, most of these rowers were no giants, but all of them were taller than me. I took that into account, but propably not enough. I'll have to try different ratings and see what works best.

[MartinSH4321]

The rating was on the low side but the more I think about and the more research I do the more I think a lower rating is OK for me. We both are stronger than fit (you're more balanced of course ) and therefore don't have to rate high and expend energy pushing our bodyweight up and down the rail. I did a quick research at the C2 rankings and looked for very strong 30' workouts (+8600m), I found many ratings of 25-27, only a few above. As they are much faster than me they have a more powerful stroke than me (SPI of 12-14 vs. me around 11 at R22-23). I'm sure they are that much fitter than me, but I doubt they are all that much stronger. Maybe I forgot something in my calculation, I'll slowly raise my rating and see how that feels

That is a fair comment, and in reality rowing at a certain pace, drag & stroke is all a means to an end, so it's about finding what is most efficient for you.

I do think that there is some benefit to try and get better at higher rates, if only to work on your weaknesses, but mid rates for TTs might just be what works best for you.

Thanks mate, I totally agree, we have to find out what works best.
I just checked my training log and it looks like I definitely should do more workouts at the 26-30SPM range, most of my training is very low or (very) high SPM, only the longer distance intervals are in this middle range. It's good to talk about things like that as it is a chance to notice weaknesses and gaps in the training schedule.

[hjs]

Re Strokes.

Martin, a stroke is not a stroke. Its not cycling where the movement is fixed. A hard long stroke, compared to a softer featered stroke does waste much more energy. So you can,t put a number on how much energy 1 stroke does waste. Rating up is about learning to soften do the transition from stroke to recovery.

[WIghtsculler]

I got on an erg for the first time in over a month yesterday.With gym shut down for over a month and my wife finding job after job in the garden to be completed by yesterday, the routine has gone completely out of the window. To add insult to injury (or injury to insult) I went out for a 5 k run 10 days ago and twisted my ankle. I can't even walk the dogs1

After an afternoon in the garden I hopped on the erg I have borrowed with very low expectations. I have been trying to complete a 5 k in recent months. Most of my rows have been 1.5k to 3k and when I have tried 5k I have gone off to fast and blown up so it has become a real mental wall as much as anything.

In hindsight I still went off too high but at least I finished and as it is my first it is still a PB.

18.35.0 5000 1.51.5 23
3.43.1 1000 1.51.5 23
3.40.6 2000 1.50.3 22
3.41.4 3000 1.50.7 24
3.53.7 4000 1.56.8 23
3.36.2 5000 1.48.1 25

It felt so good to be exercising again (even with my ankle still bandaged), that I got a bit enthusiastic as I settled into a good rhythm after the first k. The 3rd k it was getting tough and I was feeling hot. I must have responded by upping the rate a little to keep the wheel spinning. I blew up / wimped out after 3500 and decided to coast to the finish. After a slow 500 I got a rhythm back and came back strongly. I had a strong last 600 with a higher rate and pushed it down to 1.45 and then 1.42.

Suggestions as to how to improve would be much appreciated with regard to the following:

Pacing
A plan to improve my 5k and 2k
30 minutes scares the life out of me... How do I get over this and learn to embrace longer rows?

Cheers in advance.

Well done on the PB. You're only scared of doing a 30 min row as you're letting your ego dictate your pace. All of us would be worried about trying to do 30 mins at an unsustainable pace.

Doing at least 30 mins, and longer preferably, will be a good way of improving your 5k and 2k. If you do them at a slow and sustainable pace, your base fitness will improve and as you get fitter you can speed up the pace occasionally.

It may seem counter-intuitive but to get faster you need to go slower and build a base fitness. Ideally you should aim to do 30 mins, and eventually longer, at a sustainable pace that doesn't have you failing. Try 2:05 to start with and see how that feels. You want it to feel like a 7 out of 10 effort, so it might need to be faster or slower.

Thanks Stu and also HJS for the good advice....... I am going to do a REALLY slow 30 mins later and just pick it up a bit in the last 5 minutes.

[MartinSH4321]

Re Strokes.

Martin, a stroke is not a stroke. Its not cycling where the movement is fixed. A hard long stroke, compared to a softer featered stroke does waste much more energy. So you can,t put a number on how much energy 1 stroke does waste. Rating up is about learning to soften do the transition from stroke to recovery.

That's a very good point, I have hardly any knowledge about sports science, and calculating the watts that have to be used to push the bodyweight up and down the slide is only one part of efficiency.
But don't you think that for stronger and less fit rower a lower spm fits better? A softer, more fluit stroke should be possible at lower ratings too I think. I only have 3 recent sessions to compare (10k PB R24 248W for the first 30', 30R20 PB 250W+ for the first 25', 30' PB R22/23 255W for the first 20'). The 30R20 felt the easierst, the 30' R22 about equal and the R24 the hardest at slowest pace. I hope it's just a matter of practise and getting a softer stroke, I'll slowly raise the rating, but as long as I can't row faster I think a high rating isn't necessary.

[hjs]

Re Strokes.

Martin, a stroke is not a stroke. Its not cycling where the movement is fixed. A hard long stroke, compared to a softer featered stroke does waste much more energy. So you can,t put a number on how much energy 1 stroke does waste. Rating up is about learning to soften do the transition from stroke to recovery.

That's a very good point, I have hardly any knowledge about sports science, and calculating the watts that have to be used to push the bodyweight up and down the slide is only one part of efficiency.
But don't you think that for stronger and less fit rower a lower spm fits better? A softer, more fluit stroke should be possible at lower ratings too I think. I only have 3 recent sessions to compare (10k PB R24 248W for the first 30', 30R20 PB 250W+ for the first 25', 30' PB R22/23 255W for the first 20'). The 30R20 felt the easierst, the 30' R22 about equal and the R24 the hardest at slowest pace. I hope it's just a matter of practise and getting a softer stroke, I'll slowly raise the rating, but as long as I can't row faster I think a high rating isn't necessary.

I certainly think a certain movement patern does suit a given athlete. I myself never rated above 31av over 2k, and also never could rate up very well over the 500.
But apart from that, I do think everything is, partly trainable.

You could try to do some L3 training from the wolverineplan. Which is apart from the faster stuff, mainly low rate. Av max r20.
A L3 session, is free, higher rate, over a long distance. Effort ut1 ish, but not time trial like. You should force yourself to rate up.
For a TT I think you always should rate by feel, use what feels the best. And ofcourse for 1.50 you don,t need 27. But for 145/46 you need more spm.

[MartinSH4321]

Re Strokes.

Martin, a stroke is not a stroke. Its not cycling where the movement is fixed. A hard long stroke, compared to a softer featered stroke does waste much more energy. So you can,t put a number on how much energy 1 stroke does waste. Rating up is about learning to soften do the transition from stroke to recovery.

That's a very good point, I have hardly any knowledge about sports science, and calculating the watts that have to be used to push the bodyweight up and down the slide is only one part of efficiency.
But don't you think that for stronger and less fit rower a lower spm fits better? A softer, more fluit stroke should be possible at lower ratings too I think. I only have 3 recent sessions to compare (10k PB R24 248W for the first 30', 30R20 PB 250W+ for the first 25', 30' PB R22/23 255W for the first 20'). The 30R20 felt the easierst, the 30' R22 about equal and the R24 the hardest at slowest pace. I hope it's just a matter of practise and getting a softer stroke, I'll slowly raise the rating, but as long as I can't row faster I think a high rating isn't necessary.

I certainly think a certain movement patern does suit a given athlete. I myself never rated above 31av over 2k, and also never could rate up very well over the 500.
But apart from that, I do think everything is, partly trainable.

You could try to do some L3 training from the wolverineplan. Which is apart from the faster stuff, mainly low rate. Av max r20.
A L3 session, is free, higher rate, over a long distance. Effort ut1 ish, but not time trial like. You should force yourself to rate up.
For a TT I think you always should rate by feel, use what feels the best. And ofcourse for 1.50 you don,t need 27. But for 145/46 you need more spm.

I followed your advice and tried 10k R25 at 220W, it felt weird and it was hard not to pace up. Every time I got a bit distracted I found myself doing more watts than planned.
What I recognized: The effort feels much harder for me than at R20, and HR was much higher than normal. 220W should be UT1 for me, but HR says it was AT. Actually, my HR was only a bit lower than at my 30R20 PB where I did 30W more (it was hotter today, but not that much).
What I think was positive: my legs felt pretty relaxed, at lower ratings there is more strain and after the effort they still feel heavy, today I felt pretty fresh only a couple of minutes after finish.
I definitely need to work on that, and it looks like a regular UT1/AT session will fit, thanks for your help!

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
3:53.2 1,000m 1:56.6 221 1059 26 136
3:53.2 1,000m 1:56.6 221 1059 25 143
3:53.4 2,000m 1:56.7 220 1057 25 147
3:53.1 3,000m 1:56.5 221 1060 25 151
3:53.2 4,000m 1:56.6 221 1059 25 152
3:53.7 5,000m 1:56.8 219 1054 25 155
3:53.4 6,000m 1:56.7 220 1057 25 156
3:53.4 7,000m 1:56.7 220 1057 25 160
3:53.5 8,000m 1:56.7 220 1056 25 161
3:53.5 9,000m 1:56.7 220 1056 25 160

[max_ratcliffe]

Before lockdown I had a plan to train for 1k and set a goal of 3:30. Didn't get to follow the plan, and since getting my own erg have done just a couple of 4x750 intervals sessions. Have redrawn the plan, and thought I should set a marker for the coming season.

To my astonishment:

1k PB
3:29.4 1000m 1:44.7 32 175

42.9 200m 1:47.2 32 175
41.7 400m 1:44.2 32 176
42.0 600m 1:45,0 31 179
41.8 800m 1:44.5 32 181
40.9 1000m 1:42.2 34 181

Disappointingly ErgData glitched out before this (it captured my warm up though - thanks!).

Speaking of warm-up, I did 5k at about UT2 pace, low rate to get the aerobic system going. Then rested about 3-4 mins and did 30s at about 95%, 1:40 split rate 36, and rested for another 2-3 minutes before the TT.

I think this w/u really helped today. The short 30s sprint at high rate compared to what I'm used to made pulling rate 32 seem reasonably pedestrian.


2k cool down.

[winniewinser]

Before lockdown I had a plan to train for 1k and set a goal of 3:30. Didn't get to follow the plan, and since getting my own erg have done just a couple of 4x750 intervals sessions. Have redrawn the plan, and thought I should set a marker for the coming season.

To my astonishment:

1k PB
3:29.4 1000m 1:44.7 32 175

42.9 200m 1:47.2 32 175
41.7 400m 1:44.2 32 176
42.0 600m 1:45,0 31 179
41.8 800m 1:44.5 32 181
40.9 1000m 1:42.2 34 181

Disappointingly ErgData glitched out before this (it captured my warm up though - thanks!).

Speaking of warm-up, I did 5k at about UT2 pace, low rate to get the aerobic system going. Then rested about 3-4 mins and did 30s at about 95%, 1:40 split rate 36, and rested for another 2-3 minutes before the TT.

I think this w/u really helped today. The short 30s sprint at high rate compared to what I'm used to made pulling rate 32 seem reasonably pedestrian.


2k cool down.

Congrats Max, that looks like a well paced TT and a great result!

[MartinSH4321]

Before lockdown I had a plan to train for 1k and set a goal of 3:30. Didn't get to follow the plan, and since getting my own erg have done just a couple of 4x750 intervals sessions. Have redrawn the plan, and thought I should set a marker for the coming season.

To my astonishment:

1k PB
3:29.4 1000m 1:44.7 32 175

42.9 200m 1:47.2 32 175
41.7 400m 1:44.2 32 176
42.0 600m 1:45,0 31 179
41.8 800m 1:44.5 32 181
40.9 1000m 1:42.2 34 181

Disappointingly ErgData glitched out before this (it captured my warm up though - thanks!).

Speaking of warm-up, I did 5k at about UT2 pace, low rate to get the aerobic system going. Then rested about 3-4 mins and did 30s at about 95%, 1:40 split rate 36, and rested for another 2-3 minutes before the TT.

I think this w/u really helped today. The short 30s sprint at high rate compared to what I'm used to made pulling rate 32 seem reasonably pedestrian.


2k cool down.

Very good Max, congrats!
Looks like it was very good paced and you emptied the tank the last 200m
1 goal less for 2020

[Dangerscouse]

Before lockdown I had a plan to train for 1k and set a goal of 3:30. Didn't get to follow the plan, and since getting my own erg have done just a couple of 4x750 intervals sessions. Have redrawn the plan, and thought I should set a marker for the coming season.

To my astonishment:

1k PB
3:29.4 1000m 1:44.7 32 175

42.9 200m 1:47.2 32 175
41.7 400m 1:44.2 32 176
42.0 600m 1:45,0 31 179
41.8 800m 1:44.5 32 181
40.9 1000m 1:42.2 34 181

Disappointingly ErgData glitched out before this (it captured my warm up though - thanks!).

Speaking of warm-up, I did 5k at about UT2 pace, low rate to get the aerobic system going. Then rested about 3-4 mins and did 30s at about 95%, 1:40 split rate 36, and rested for another 2-3 minutes before the TT.

I think this w/u really helped today. The short 30s sprint at high rate compared to what I'm used to made pulling rate 32 seem reasonably pedestrian.


2k cool down.

Yes Max!! Having your own erg necessitates that you set PBs. Well done mate

[Gammmmo]

Before lockdown I had a plan to train for 1k and set a goal of 3:30. Didn't get to follow the plan, and since getting my own erg have done just a couple of 4x750 intervals sessions. Have redrawn the plan, and thought I should set a marker for the coming season.

To my astonishment:

1k PB
3:29.4 1000m 1:44.7 32 175

42.9 200m 1:47.2 32 175
41.7 400m 1:44.2 32 176
42.0 600m 1:45,0 31 179
41.8 800m 1:44.5 32 181
40.9 1000m 1:42.2 34 181

Disappointingly ErgData glitched out before this (it captured my warm up though - thanks!).

Speaking of warm-up, I did 5k at about UT2 pace, low rate to get the aerobic system going. Then rested about 3-4 mins and did 30s at about 95%, 1:40 split rate 36, and rested for another 2-3 minutes before the TT.

I think this w/u really helped today. The short 30s sprint at high rate compared to what I'm used to made pulling rate 32 seem reasonably pedestrian.


2k cool down.

Yes Max!! Having your own erg necessitates that you set PBs. Well done mate

Yes....well done on the PB, Max. Looking at the splits I'd say you weren't an idiot to start off with nor were u a wimp towards the end. Eh Stu?

[Dangerscouse]

Yes....well done on the PB, Max. Looking at the splits I'd say you weren't an idiot to start off with nor were u a wimp towards the end. Eh Stu?

Hahahaha, I'd love to take credit for it, but I have read it somewhere so it wasn't me, but it is the best piece of 2k advice I have ever heard

[Dino]

Before lockdown I had a plan to train for 1k and set a goal of 3:30. Didn't get to follow the plan, and since getting my own erg have done just a couple of 4x750 intervals sessions. Have redrawn the plan, and thought I should set a marker for the coming season.

To my astonishment:

1k PB
3:29.4 1000m 1:44.7 32 175

42.9 200m 1:47.2 32 175
41.7 400m 1:44.2 32 176
42.0 600m 1:45,0 31 179
41.8 800m 1:44.5 32 181
40.9 1000m 1:42.2 34 181

Disappointingly ErgData glitched out before this (it captured my warm up though - thanks!).

Speaking of warm-up, I did 5k at about UT2 pace, low rate to get the aerobic system going. Then rested about 3-4 mins and did 30s at about 95%, 1:40 split rate 36, and rested for another 2-3 minutes before the TT.

I think this w/u really helped today. The short 30s sprint at high rate compared to what I'm used to made pulling rate 32 seem reasonably pedestrian.

2k cool down.

Sub 3:30... top work Max!
That's a great milestone to tick off.
Way better than I could do... been over a year since even tried a 1k... too chicken / pain averse!!

[winniewinser]

Spring Series VIII 4'TT....a PB but I'm not really happy with it . I had a plan but my brain ignored it and I paid the price in the middle 2' . So 4' of max effort feels a little wasted tbh. Rowers cough followed. I may go again before Saturday as I think 1200m is doable.

@Henry... perfect example of my poor pacing