Heart rate & perceived exertion

[jackarabit]

[Bleed242]

I've been training with a monitor for a while. To increase your ability to go longer, harder, increase your zone 2 training miles. It'll seem slow. That's OK, you are building blood vessels and increasing your capacity to go harder longer. Over time, your pace will drop at the same heart rate. For example, when I started rowing a lot, my pace at ~140 bpm (my upper zone 2 range) was somewhere around 2:30 or 2:40. Now I'm around 2:20. Same heart rate plus I'm older. Also, be aware of heart rate drift where your pace in a workout will gradually slow at a given heart rate. This is normal. Intersperse that with some HIIT-like workouts, but those should be in the minority. If you target zone 2 3X a week and 1 HIIT-like workout a week, you won't burn out. I often peruse the running literature on HR training. Lots of good stuff in their realm. That said, I might not know what I am talking about (understatement of the year). Good luck!

[johnlvs2run]

In my experience, perceived exertion over time is the best.

[Dangerscouse]

I think you should probably lower your pace to the HR level that you're going for. If you feel something isn't right, make a note of it and don't strictly use that pace as an indicator of progress, or lack of it, but it could be your body's way of telling you to slow down.

However perceived exertion is also important as this can give you a different conclusion than your HR, so the trick is to really know when you should listen to either one of them without letting your ego dictate the pace. That only comes with experience as there's no specific formula to do it.

I also heard an interesting article on how you shouldn't discount the effect of menstrual cycles on performance. Make sure that is also taken into account and compare week 1 with week 1 etc and don't expect a linear line of progress as it can, to varying degrees, have a big impact on potential performance.

[Gammmmo]

How does the heart rate correlate to perceived exertion? For example, if I repeat a steady-state workout that has an average heart rate at a fixed intensity, and then one day I suddenly feel like that workout is much more tiring for some reason even though I'm doing the same intensity, will that reflect as an increased heart rate (than normal)? If so -- is this then proof that on days when you're really tired, you should actually lower your intensity to match your usual heart rate for that workout?

No, probably the opposite. If your body is tired your HR will be supressed for the same intensity. It will feel harder. You'll find if u tested your max on such a day it's unlikely to be that high. This sounds counter-intuitive but don't confuse short and long term variations in average HR for a session. OVER TIME (if you get fitter) then your HR will be lower for a given intensity as your body adapts but IN THE SHORT TERM the effect I've cited may present itself.

The body is a strange thing though and sports science is nowhere near undetstanding it in its entirety so very occasionally u may c your HR higher in a given session e.g. due to impending illness where the immune system is ramping up. I wouldn't focus on that effect though as less common. Similarly, in stressful situations when cortisol is very high, paradoxically, sometimes people do really good performances...I'll not expand on that either as less common.

The reason I ask, is because in my many years of fitness, I have one recurring problem: I'll have a "high" of really great weeks of working out and making progress, but inevitably I "crash" and get a week or even weeks of tiredness, and it's very discouraging. On the one hand, I'm convinced that the occasional exhaustion I feel on some days (during my high) could be a real physical phenomena that I should heed, which would be reflected, I assume, in the heart rate data. On the other, I wonder if the feeling of tiredness is irrelevant to progress. Should I go less intense that day because my body is trying to tell me to rest?? It would be great if heart rate data could help guide me in deciding whether I'm pushing myself too hard. Although I've worked out for many years, I still can't ever determine whether I'm under or over-pushing myself!!

Know your body. Once you start training alot you'll be constantly flirting with tiredness and get to recognise when to back off or when to push on (and choose the right session for that day). Over-training is quite hard to do for most people. In cycling, we had an adage "the harder you train, the harder you can train" so sometimes in order to get fitter u may need to come out of any perceived comfort zone.

[hjs]

How does the heart rate correlate to perceived exertion? For example, if I repeat a steady-state workout that has an average heart rate at a fixed intensity, and then one day I suddenly feel like that workout is much more tiring for some reason even though I'm doing the same intensity, will that reflect as an increased heart rate (than normal)? If so -- is this then proof that on days when you're really tired, you should actually lower your intensity to match your usual heart rate for that workout?

No, probably the opposite. If your body is tired your HR will be supressed for the same intensity. It will feel harder. You'll find if u tested your max on such a day it's unlikely to be that high. This sounds counter-intuitive but don't confuse short and long term variations in average HR for a session. OVER TIME (if you get fitter) then your HR will be lower for a given intensity as your body adapts but IN THE SHORT TERM the effect I've cited may present itself.

The body is a strange thing though and sports science is nowhere near undetstanding it in its entirety so very occasionally u may c your HR higher in a given session e.g. due to impending illness where the immune system is ramping up. I wouldn't focus on that effect though as less common. Similarly, in stressful situations when cortisol is very high, paradoxically, sometimes people do really good performances...I'll not expand on that either as less common.

The reason I ask, is because in my many years of fitness, I have one recurring problem: I'll have a "high" of really great weeks of working out and making progress, but inevitably I "crash" and get a week or even weeks of tiredness, and it's very discouraging. On the one hand, I'm convinced that the occasional exhaustion I feel on some days (during my high) could be a real physical phenomena that I should heed, which would be reflected, I assume, in the heart rate data. On the other, I wonder if the feeling of tiredness is irrelevant to progress. Should I go less intense that day because my body is trying to tell me to rest?? It would be great if heart rate data could help guide me in deciding whether I'm pushing myself too hard. Although I've worked out for many years, I still can't ever determine whether I'm under or over-pushing myself!!

Know your body. Once you start training alot you'll be constantly flirting with tiredness and get to recognise when to back off or when to push on (and choose the right session for that day). Over-training is quite hard to do for most people. In cycling, we had an adage "the harder you train, the harder you can train" so sometimes in order to get fitter u may need to come out of any perceived comfort zone.

Re Tired, our rest rate is elevated and max hf is lower, also rate of recovery is slower.

If you crash and burn, you are overreaching, and not able to recover from your workload.

In the bigger picture, hf and persieved effort should go hand in hand.

[jamesg]

I have a new Polar H10 heart rate monitor on the way

Keep it simple, HR over say 120-130. If you think your HR says stop, or if you want to stop, then stop. PM5 will tell you what you've done and shows Pace or Watts so allows close control right from the start. Even more so using ergdata.

If too much, use Occam's razor. In rowing this means pull long hard strokes and plenty of them. No way can that fail to keep you fit.

[Gammmmo]

Re Tired, our rest rate is elevated and max hf is lower, also rate of recovery is slower.

Yup, essentially the heart is under stress in addition to the exercise and is working less efficiently.

[Dangerscouse]

No, probably the opposite. If your body is tired your HR will be supressed for the same intensity. It will feel harder. You'll find if u tested your max on such a day it's unlikely to be that high. This sounds counter-intuitive but don't confuse short and long term variations in average HR for a session. OVER TIME (if you get fitter) then your HR will be lower for a given intensity as your body adapts but IN THE SHORT TERM the effect I've cited may present itself.


sometimes in order to get fitter u may need to come out of any perceived comfort zone.

Very interesting I never thought of it that way, and 100% agree with it being a balancing act for when you can push through a perceived limit and when you need to act on the subtle signs.

Perceptions of limits are really just an automatic response to protect yourself but we instinctively and subconsciously over estimate what is necessary most of the time.