Steady state programming

[Shrew]

Hi All, in lockdown here and luckily picked up a concept 2 just before everything shut. This is a good opportunity to just rack up a lot of mileage with great recovery. I switched recently from another sport that's about as anaerobic as it's possible to be (if you want to guess, think very literally) so I've been doing steady state last few months to improve what's probably a very weak and neglected aerobic system. Did a 7:08 2km at the end of 2019. I've got probably at least 6 weeks at home and would like to hit 6:40 before being released back into the wild. With all this time on my hands I'm upping the mileage first to 20km/day then hopefully 25-30km/day of slow aerobic work plus a couple of faster interval based sessions each week. But dividing the steady state between morning and evening, largely to protect my lower back. I can feel it tire and start rounding after 12-13km but can keep good form over 10km.

Representative 10k below, I'm doing everything between 2:04-2:06 pace. I know the HR looks high but it has already come down a great deal since my last 2km test. At the time I was averaging 180bpm for a 2:08 split over 8km . Assuming I'm now closer to a 7:00 2km, on a wattage basis my 10k sessions are at low-end UT1 pace, which is about what they feels like. Need to re-test but doing a 2km is so disruptive. Takes long enough just to get peripheral vision back, let alone recover fully.

Couple of questions and any other advice appreciated:

- presumably the only reason to drop pace further into the UT2 zone would be for recovery, to get in more mileage. I'm recovering fine at the moment so may as well stick to this pacing?
- 2x10km is a bit different from 1x20km. Cold start each time, lower avg. hr. Is it a better idea to do them close together with a rest interval in between, or does it not really matter?

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
41:40.4 10,000m 2:05.0 179 916 18 166
8:20.8 2,000m 2:05.2 178 913 18 156
8:18.2 4,000m 2:04.5 181 923 18 166
8:19.9 6,000m 2:04.9 179 917 18 169
8:21.6 8,000m 2:05.4 177 910 18 170
8:19.9 10,000m 2:04.9 179 917 18 172

[max_ratcliffe]

Hi All, in lockdown here and luckily picked up a concept 2 just before everything shut. This is a good opportunity to just rack up a lot of mileage with great recovery. I switched recently from another sport that's about as anaerobic as it's possible to be (if you want to guess, think very literally) so I've been doing steady state last few months to improve what's probably a very weak and neglected aerobic system.

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Welcome. I'll let the experts reply to your specific queries (I'm interested to see what they say too), but I have to have a guess at the "literal" anaerobic sport... the best I can come up with is freediving.

If so, more power to you. About the most insane and dangerous sport I can imagine, except perhaps no-chute skydiving (yes, that's a thing!).

[Concept3]

Hello!

Based on the rule of thumb 2k+25sec your split should be ~2:12 and if your HRmax is 200, 80% of that would be 160 as an upper limit. Easiest, but not accurate, formula to calculate HRmax gives you 181 max. So my guess is you are not doing steady state. I’m far away from being an expert so I’m also curious what the expert’s have to say.

[hjs]

Hf looks very high, don,t know what your heart rate reserve is. Max minus rest puls, but say those are 200 and 60, your reserve would be 140.
Use 70% of that as your cap. That would be 98.
Cap would be 60 plus 98, gives 158.

Use your own, real numbers. If you really want to up your volume, really stay at ut2 pace.

[Shrew]

I have to have a guess at the "literal" anaerobic sport... the best I can come up with is freediving.

Yuss! It's not nearly as dangerous as it seems but is fairly brutal on the body in its own way. Going way into O2 debt every time without ever training the aerobic system.

[Shrew]

Appreciate the replies, thanks guys.

Resting HR 48, true max I don't know but I was seeing 200 not infrequently last year if I added a sprint to the end of an 8k. Yields 154 as 70% of HRR. If that's a cap rather than an average, I'll have to try it but think I'd need to stick to something like 2:14 splits on a longer row. Given the workouts I'm already doing are barely registering on the fatigue scale that pace doesn't seem necessary from a recovery perspective but perhaps it will at high mileage. Or is it also about specificity, targeting training to that energy system only? Sticking to a 10k @2:05 plus a true UT2 15-20k could be the approach? I know LSS is supposed to be a long term thing but these are unusual times and trying to make the most of all this rest and training time while I've got it.

Recent workout of 8x500@1min rest (1:43 avg) and a hard but not all-out 5k of 18:25 seem a bit at odds with heart rate though perhaps not miles out. I was working on a projected 2k split of 1:44 + 23 (is 25 the standard?) giving 2:07 UT2 and allowed myself a bit of creep as I reduced distance down for 15k.

[Dangerscouse]

It sounds, and feels, counter intuitive that you do benefit most from going slower and easier as long as you also train harder and faster occasionally too.

Having said that, if you don't feel enjoyment from going slower I personally think it's counter productive as training is also about releasing endorphins and dopamine as well producing more mitochondria. I have made good gains by training in the grey zone, admittedly it's a tightrope as you're subtly burning the candle at both ends so it's not a good idea for longer than a few months, and may not work for you at all. We are all different and we respond to different stimuli in different ways.

From my experience, I think your plan of specificity is a good one. It is a lot easier to control the pace on a longer distance and you still get to feed your ego for the 10k, which is something that all competitive people will need to do if only occasionally.

Training to a HR capped session isn't as bad as it sounds and once you focus on a specific goal your expectations reset themselves and it's quite often the only way I can slow myself down. If you're going to do a semi hard 10k the longer distances really do need to be slowed down even if it does feel like your recovery isn't being compromised. As Pete Reed said, if your slow stuff is too fast, your fast stuff will be too slow.

[hjs]

Appreciate the replies, thanks guys.

Resting HR 48, true max I don't know but I was seeing 200 not infrequently last year if I added a sprint to the end of an 8k. Yields 154 as 70% of HRR. If that's a cap rather than an average, I'll have to try it but think I'd need to stick to something like 2:14 splits on a longer row. Given the workouts I'm already doing are barely registering on the fatigue scale that pace doesn't seem necessary from a recovery perspective but perhaps it will at high mileage. Or is it also about specificity, targeting training to that energy system only? Sticking to a 10k @2:05 plus a true UT2 15-20k could be the approach? I know LSS is supposed to be a long term thing but these are unusual times and trying to make the most of all this rest and training time while I've got it.

Recent workout of 8x500@1min rest (1:43 avg) and a hard but not all-out 5k of 18:25 seem a bit at odds with heart rate though perhaps not miles out. I was working on a projected 2k split of 1:44 + 23 (is 25 the standard?) giving 2:07 UT2 and allowed myself a bit of creep as I reduced distance down for 15k.

Cap is max, not average.

The idea is that your pace comes down rather quickly. And don,t forget that a high volume does a lot.

[jimmyshand]

I'd think with "Recent workout of 8x500@1min rest (1:43 avg) and a hard but not all-out 5k of 18:25" then you should already be able to pull sub-7 without maxing out but of course you should probably try one - why not just try to hold 1:45 until 1,500 and then take it from there. I like to do a sub-maximal but still sub-7 2k from time to time just to judge my fitness but I agree that a max 2k is brutal.

But going from that to 6:40 is of course a huge leap but then you should be able to make a lot of gains so it's good to have a target (although I'd also say that if you have a target to aim for it's also good to base that on something - e.g. percent improvement in wattage, seconds, etc). I'd echo what others have said about doing a lot of slow, low rate stuff.

Keep posting your progress though at it's always interesting and people on here can give good advice all the way.

[Shrew]

Did a 10k at 2:12 to get an idea of HR then a 20k in the afternoon, HR actually averaged lower in the second session because I was a lot more carbed up. HR didn't rise after the first 25 mins so it seems about right for steady state? Main casualties at this point are my ass and hands. Probably is worth doing a sub-max 2k to get a sense of my current pace without wrecking myself in the process.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
1:27:51.8 20,000m 2:11.7 153 826 17 145
17:34.7 4,000m 2:11.8 153 825 16 140
17:34.3 8,000m 2:11.7 153 826 16 146
17:34.2 12,000m 2:11.7 153 826 17 148
17:34.4 16,000m 2:11.8 153 826 17 144
17:34.3 20,000m 2:11.7 153 826 18 148

[Dangerscouse]

Did a 10k at 2:12 to get an idea of HR then a 20k in the afternoon, HR actually averaged lower in the second session because I was a lot more carbed up. HR didn't rise after the first 25 mins so it seems about right for steady state? Main casualties at this point are my ass and hands. Probably is worth doing a sub-max 2k to get a sense of my current pace without wrecking myself in the process.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
1:27:51.8 20,000m 2:11.7 153 826 17 145
17:34.7 4,000m 2:11.8 153 825 16 140
17:34.3 8,000m 2:11.7 153 826 16 146
17:34.2 12,000m 2:11.7 153 826 17 148
17:34.4 16,000m 2:11.8 153 826 17 144
17:34.3 20,000m 2:11.7 153 826 18 148

Yeah, the lack of cardiac drift looks like you have nailed the right pace but HR can be an all too fickle marker of performance at times. The drop from 148 to 144 back up to 148 is a good example.

Nice consistency too

[Shrew]

Fickle all right, this was in the afternoon after eating like a horse all day. Some drift but within the UT2 cap.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
1:03:59.5 15,000m 2:07.9 167 874 18 144
12:47.7 3,000m 2:07.9 167 875 18 135
12:47.9 6,000m 2:07.9 167 874 18 139
12:47.7 9,000m 2:07.9 167 875 18 144
12:48.0 12,000m 2:08.0 167 874 18 149
12:48.2 15,000m 2:08.0 167 873 18 154

[winniewinser]

Fickle all right, this was in the afternoon after eating like a horse all day. Some drift but within the UT2 cap.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
1:03:59.5 15,000m 2:07.9 167 874 18 144
12:47.7 3,000m 2:07.9 167 875 18 135
12:47.9 6,000m 2:07.9 167 874 18 139
12:47.7 9,000m 2:07.9 167 875 18 144
12:48.0 12,000m 2:08.0 167 874 18 149
12:48.2 15,000m 2:08.0 167 873 18 154

Crikey what's your max HR if that is UT2?....I have to aim for under 127 to be UT2

Tidy meters though.

[Shrew]

I don't know, but it's at least 200. I was seeing that on a semi-regular basis when I started using a HRM last year. I'm trying to work it all out but resting is 48 so based on the HRR calculation given above the cap would be 154.

[jbhop5857]

You see max HR over 200? Way to go, I haven’t seen anything over 185 in a while and that includes some very hard Jiu Jitsu rounds and sprints. I am 40, 6 ft, 195lb (yeah, by bio needs to be updated) and in decent shape. My HR work is usually in the 125-135 range.
However, may I suggest you look into the Pete Plan. There is a thread for it, I just posted that I was starting it again. You can make tremendous strides with the program, especially if you keep the Steady State up at the same time. Only difference, Pete Plan does not care so much about HR, it is a Power Plan. So Steady state really only looks at SPM and /500 meters. Allows more flexibility for pushing the HR range to maintain a Steady State at the end. I did 4x1000 today with a warm up and some rowing during the breaks and you can always add more steady state in the afternoon on those days. But more than anything, they are active recovery. Just my .02