Slides

[[old] gw1]

I have just finished my second session on the new slides. I've been off the C2 since last Oct recovering from injuries from a surfing wipeout. My objective in purchasing the slides was to rebuild my base CV on the C2 unlike in the past where i do most of my base on the water.<br /> <br />The first impression rowing at a pace of 1:55/500m at 24 spm is that it is very smooth and easier on my knees. I sat on this pace yesterday and today for 20 min just to get the feel for it. <br /><br />One difficulty that i did find today was that when i went to pick up the pace with out raising the stroke rate was that it felt very difficult to get a strong initial leg drive. For me the explosive push through my feet at the catch before engaging my back is how i've been able to create relatively good times in distances 2000m and under (this has always been my focus, not the longer distances). <br />I may have to use the slides only for the base work and later this summer when i resume interval and fartlek training revert to stardard C2.<br /><br />Cheers<br />Gary

[[old] fast and bulbous]

No help, but i got the same experience. Before i'm able to apply some power, the stroke is over. Probably bad technique, but the result is that my slides are stored in my shed waiting for better times.<br /><br />Erik

[[old] PaulS]

I would suggest continuing to work on your leg speed at the catch when on the slides. Also, there is an element of body control when on the slides that takes some time to work out, especially when trying to hold the rate down and really drive hard with the legs, if the timing is not well balanced you will "wander" along the length of the slides, and bumping the end, even lightly, will require a few strokes to get things back into equilibrium.<br /><br /><br />Shameless Plug:<br /><br />You will need a CBreeze and some Swing Slings to fully appreciate the slides.

[[old] fast and bulbous]

Got the CBreeze already, but Swing Slings? For Sissypusses?<br /><br />

[[old] gw1]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Feb 10 2005, 11:53 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Feb 10 2005, 11:53 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I would suggest continuing to work on your leg speed at the catch when on the slides.  Also, there is an element of body control when on the slides that takes some time to work out, especially when trying to hold the rate down and really drive hard with the legs, if the timing is not well balanced you will "wander" along the length of the slides, and bumping the end, even lightly, will require a few strokes to get things back into equilibrium.<br /><br /><br />Shameless Plug:<br /><br />You will need a CBreeze and some Swing Slings to fully appreciate the slides.  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul,<br /><br />I wasn't out of control enough to bump either end. But the last thing that i want to feel is that i have to make an adjustment to make a "save". <br />I took the unit off the slides and did a couple of fairly hard 500's for fun and it felt so good to have that immediate power hit!<br /><br />GW<br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-gw1+Feb 10 2005, 09:03 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Feb 10 2005, 09:03 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Feb 10 2005, 11:53 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Feb 10 2005, 11:53 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I would suggest continuing to work on your leg speed at the catch when on the slides.  Also, there is an element of body control when on the slides that takes some time to work out, especially when trying to hold the rate down and really drive hard with the legs, if the timing is not well balanced you will "wander" along the length of the slides, and bumping the end, even lightly, will require a few strokes to get things back into equilibrium.<br /><br /><br />Shameless Plug:<br /><br />You will need a CBreeze and some Swing Slings to fully appreciate the slides.   <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Paul,<br /><br />I wasn't out of control enough to bump either end. But the last thing that i want to feel is that i have to make an adjustment to make a "save". <br />I took the unit off the slides and did a couple of fairly hard 500's for fun and it felt so good to have that immediate power hit!<br /><br />GW <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Just so the power hit is going into the Handle, I suspect that it may not be, because if it were, there would be no difference between what you would feel on the slides and on the ground. One more shameless plug is in order, but it relates to determining that for sure. ErgMonitor would show you exactly if the force is going against the Handle or against Inertia.<br /><br />This is much like the difference people will feel when going from Higher to Lower DF's. At first they can not move quickly enough to get high handle forces at Lower DF's, but I can assure you that fairly high handle forces are possible at low DF's.<br />

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-fast and bulbous+Feb 10 2005, 09:00 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(fast and bulbous @ Feb 10 2005, 09:00 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Got the CBreeze already, but Swing Slings? For Sissypusses? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's right, the real tough folks don't mind the sacrificing the backs of their heels, or cover them with Duct tape ("Sissypuss"?). <br /><br />I'm simply offering a more intelligent solution, and it happens to be comfortable too.<br /><br /><br />"Sissypuss must die!"

[[old] gw1]

DF 118, have not seen a force curve graph on the slides but have seen mine on a regular C2 and it showed a strong intitial hit slow taper leading to the end of stroke drop off. Definitely not what i'm feeling with the slides, more of an later hit, definitely a lower power app. and maybe even a VERY slight secondary back hit.<br /><br />GW

[[old] PaulS]

<!--QuoteBegin-gw1+Feb 10 2005, 09:28 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Feb 10 2005, 09:28 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->DF 118, have not seen a force curve graph on the slides but have seen mine on a regular C2 and it showed a strong intitial hit slow taper leading to the end of stroke drop off. Definitely not what i'm feeling with the slides, more of an later hit, definitely a lower power app. and maybe even a VERY slight secondary back hit.<br /><br />GW <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />You may want to try an experiment: Test out the feeling you get whith varying the DF. My guess would be that if you increase the DF you will be able to get the "feel" you are used to. The higher the DF needs to be to get the right feeling, the more you will need to work on leg speed. This work can be accomplished by using a much lower DF, just put the lever all the way down and do a short piece at target pace, then move it back to the 118 you normally use. This is the equivalent of swinging a weighted bat to make the regular one feel lighter. You are having to go quite a bit "over speed" at the low DF and the temporary effect will be an increase in leg speed. While it's possible to fool ourselves for a short period, the more serious work of ingraining the neurological habits will still require a lot of work.<br /><br /><br />

[[old] nkoffler]

Gary-<br /><br />I have been using the slides exclusively for about a month now. I had used them at Xeno's studio a few times and finally got my home set-up so that I could accommodate them. Here are a few random static/slide thoughts.<br /><br />1) Slides are less jarring on your back;<br />2) Slides make watching TV easier in that you don't move back and forth;<br />3) Slides allow for a much more varied workout including one legged rowing (without a skatboard for the resting leg);<br />4) Slides involve balance and core muscles more than the static erg; and<br />5) Slides demand proper technique. Static erg accepts it but does not require it.<br /><br />Initially, I found that I needed to up my stroke rate in order to keep the same pace. This was because I was over compressing on the static erg which ultimately puts undue stain on the body. I've been concentrating on the various elements of the stroke on the slides and speed at the catch is the biggest adjustment in going from static to slides. Also, the whole rate for pace relationship is much more obvious on the slides making all of those varying SPM workouts make sense now.<br /><br />Of course, you can achieve much of these technique improvements on a static erg (largely by following Paul's 10MPS program) but it's easier to learn and more fun on slides. I'd suggest listening to Paul, ordering Xeno's DVDs, and staying on the slides. Finally, if you train on slides full time, those rare sessions on a static erg will feel much more powerful thanks to the improved technique.<br /><br />Neil<br />M/LW/38/US<br /><br />