New rower - What to do?

[Kris7900]

Hi everyone, just got my Concept 2 today and am excited to get on a regular workout plan. However... I have no idea where to start. 38 years old, in below average but not terrible shape. I don't know what I should be doing, paying attention to on the monitor, really anything. Any ideas? Are there links to progressive workout plans starting from beginning and going from there? Ways to make sure and keep it fun? I realize that's a lot of questions... looking for any and all input. Thanks in advance

[jamesg]

https://www.britishrowing.org/indoor-ro ... ing-plans/

[Dangerscouse]

Welcome to the forum. What are your goals? Weight loss? Fitness? Both?

To start with you need to get your technique perfected as much as possible so do a search on YouTube for Concept 2 videos. Also do a search for 'newbie' on this forum and there are loads of threads with really good ideas and advice.

Make sure you set the drag damper setting to about four as I'm assuming it's a new machine or is it second hand? If it's second hand, press More Options / Display Drag Factor and then row a few strokes. You probably want this to be somewhere between 110 and 130 so adjust the damper up or down to suit. You might like it lower than 110 but I don't recommend higher than 130 as you will tire easily and increase your chance of injury. Don't believe it needs to be on maximum to achieve a good workout, none of us use a max drag factor.

For the first two or three months get used to rowing and see how far you can go whilst maintaining good form. When you feel comfortable enough it's then time to make it more uncomfortable and include intervals and sprints.

Best of luck with it all

[jimmyshand]

Hi everyone, just got my Concept 2 today and am excited to get on a regular workout plan. However... I have no idea where to start. 38 years old, in below average but not terrible shape. I don't know what I should be doing, paying attention to on the monitor, really anything. Any ideas? Are there links to progressive workout plans starting from beginning and going from there? Ways to make sure and keep it fun? I realize that's a lot of questions... looking for any and all input. Thanks in advance

Hi Kris, if you're really new to this, I'd suggest the following. Hopefully it's helpful. This is what I'd have told my old self when I began rowing close to three years ago.

1. Figure out how the monitor works and what all the numbers mean. If it's a new Concept2 it will be a PM5 monitor and you need to look out for the pace per 500m number (when you row slowly it will be something like 2:20). This tells you what pace you're rowing and is one of the fundamentals. Another is stroke rate per minute. Most rowers start off way too fast (including me), zooming up and down the rail at 30 strokes per minute (spm) when in fact most training rows ought to be about 20spm. BUT... rowing at this rate seems really weird at first - so much so that you may think everyone suggesting this is mad.

2. Look at technique videos a lot and try to mimic them. This is so important. Post a video of your technique here if you are brave enough. There are loads of experts who can give good feedback.

3. Understand what the damper does (the lever on the side of the flywheel). Put it to about 4 or 5 for most rows. If you happen to be the world's strongest man doing a 500m row then put it at 10. Otherwise, don't! Related to this, and fundamentally what the lever is all about, is drag factor (not resistance but kind of simulates the feel of the water if you were in a boat). Drag factor should be about 110-130 for most rows. Try what feels right.

4. Start off doing some specific distances using the settings on the PM5 - e.g. try a 5k, a 2k, a 30 minute row, that kind of thing - even a 10k if you are brave enough (via Select Workout on the PM5). Record your times (use the online Logbook if you want to keep track of all your metres) and see how you compare to others, if you're into that kind of thing.

5. Spend a good bit of time reading this forum.

6. Read the PM5 manual! https://www.concept2.com/service/monitors/pm5/manuals

Hope that helps - and remember, on the monitor pay attention to the pace per 500m (try to keep it fairly constant) and the stroke rate (for most rows low 20s is about what you're looking for - for a fast 2k about 30spm, give or take).

[Kris7900]

Wow this is all super helpful information, thank you everyone! Especially Jimmyshand, thanks for the super specific details.

1) My goals are fitness, some weight loss (talking 5 pounds, i'm 5'8 160 right now). Mostly, i want to really break a good sweat 3-4 times a week. That's the gist of what I'm looking for. Along those lines, I just rowed for 30 minutes, and didn't break a sweat. I have the damper set at 4, my average /500m was 2:50...I'm assuming this means I was going super slow with very minimal effort? What changes this? Driving the legs harder and pulling harder with my arms once my legs are extended? My average SPM was 26.

2) The damper/drag factor is super confusing to me no matter how it's explained. So if you're the worlds strongest man you should put it at 10, but at the same time it doesn't have anything to do with "resistance." Even Concept 2's website says your muscles will fatigue too soon if you have it at 10... so isn't it "harder" per say? More for my understanding as I plan on simply having it in the 3-5 range.

3) I'm wide open for feedback so i'll post a video. Should I do it on this thread or on a new one?

Thanks again! Again, biggest goal is to break a good sweat multiple times a week while maintaining proper form/safety.

[Ombrax]

Mostly, i want to really break a good sweat 3-4 times a week. That's the gist of what I'm looking for. Along those lines, I just rowed for 30 minutes, and didn't break a sweat. I have the damper set at 4, my average /500m was 2:50...I'm assuming this means I was going super slow with very minimal effort? What changes this? Driving the legs harder and pulling harder with my arms once my legs are extended? My average SPM was 26.

2) The damper/drag factor is super confusing to me no matter how it's explained. So if you're the worlds strongest man you should put it at 10, but at the same time it doesn't have anything to do with "resistance." Even Concept 2's website says your muscles will fatigue too soon if you have it at 10... so isn't it "harder" per say? More for my understanding as I plan on simply having it in the 3-5 range.

Re: "breaking a sweat" It depends, of course, on what kind of shape you're in, but yes, in general 2:50 is pretty slow, and that's most likely why you didn't feel like you were working that hard. With the caveat that technique is important, and you want to be sure that you're rowing "the right way," try pushing a lot harder with your legs. They're your main source of power on the erg and that's what you need to get your time / 500m down. Try to see if you can get closer to 2:15, and if you still have something left, see what it takes to get to 2:00. Don't sacrifice technique and start flailing all over the place, and don't let your stroke rake go way high - you want to try to get good power at lower stroke rates.

Re: DF / Damper lever There's a ton of info on Drag Factor both here on the forum and on the C2 web site. Chances are 99.9% that you want it to be around 110-130, which most likely is a lever position of around 4-6.

[Citroen]

Read damper 101. Even the largest brute of a rugby player should have the damper's drag factor no higher than about 130.

Strong does NOT mean fully open damper.

http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... etting-101

[MartinSH4321]

...
2) The damper/drag factor is super confusing to me no matter how it's explained. So if you're the worlds strongest man you should put it at 10, but at the same time it doesn't have anything to do with "resistance." Even Concept 2's website says your muscles will fatigue too soon if you have it at 10... so isn't it "harder" per say? More for my understanding as I plan on simply having it in the 3-5 range.
...

Yeah, it is a bit confusing.
- The DF shows you how fast the flywheel is slowing down, with a higher damper setting more air will get to the flywheel.
- For very short sprints like 100m you need both a high rating and high force. At a low DF, after 4-5 hard pulls the flywheel will spin very fast and still spin very fast when you start your next pull, so it gets harder and harder to generate max force (you'll have no or low resistance at the beginning till you accelerated enough). With a high DF the flywheel spins slower, you can produce more force and generate more watts (lower pace). I'm not totally sure, but I guess everyone who does a serious 100m attempt uses a much higher drag than normal (for longer pieces) and many will use max drag, not only superstrong guys.
- Up to 500m a lot of people use higher drag then normal, but most won't use max drag. I'm one of those guys who use max drag for 100m, 1min and 500m, but there are much stronger and faster guys using lower drag, that depends to everyone's preverences.
- additional info: Also elite rowers use a drags around 120-130 for non-sprint distances, if I remember right the 2k WR holder (Josh Dunkley-Smith) used 125 for his record and generated almost 600W for 5:35.8.
I hope this helps, good luck for your training, buying a C2 rower was a very good decision!

[lindsayh]

Wow this is all super helpful information, thank you everyone! Especially Jimmyshand, thanks for the super specific details.
1) My goals are fitness, some weight loss (talking 5 pounds, i'm 5'8 160 right now). Mostly, i want to really break a good sweat 3-4 times a week. That's the gist of what I'm looking for. Along those lines, I just rowed for 30 minutes, and didn't break a sweat. I have the damper set at 4, my average /500m was 2:50...I'm assuming this means I was going super slow with very minimal effort? What changes this? Driving the legs harder and pulling harder with my arms once my legs are extended? My average SPM was 26.
2) The damper/drag factor is super confusing to me no matter how it's explained. So if you're the worlds strongest man you should put it at 10, but at the same time it doesn't have anything to do with "resistance." Even Concept 2's website says your muscles will fatigue too soon if you have it at 10... so isn't it "harder" per say? More for my understanding as I plan on simply having it in the 3-5 range.
3) I'm wide open for feedback so i'll post a video. Should I do it on this thread or on a new one?
Thanks again! Again, biggest goal is to break a good sweat multiple times a week while maintaining proper form/safety.

"breaking a good sweat" is a good way of looking at it - don't race your training and 30' @2:15 is a good goal to aim for initially. You still should be able to have a conversation.
@2:50 is indeed slow and means a weak stroke most likely because you are missing leg drive which is 70/80% of the power - this is by and large a pushing rather than a pulling exercise
It is not that the "world's strongest man should use max DF but that he might especially when sprinting. If he for some reason was doing steady sessions he should drop the DF too. (forget about damper setting altogether and just use drag factor - DF). You muscles will fatigue on max DF and you risk injury as well. Just find a sweet spot in the 110-130 range and go with it - might take a little trial
It is harder because you are using your power to overcome the heavy slowing fan rather than keeping it spinning and it affects your technique. it also means that your stroke rate is faster as you race to get back to the catch as the fan slows.
You could post the video on this thread - put it on YouTube and post the link.
There is a lot of good information here as well:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=185257&hilit=newbie

[Dangerscouse]

When you have proper technique you will be able to produce a hard workout with any drag factor. Most of my PBs have been set at 115, as they were set when I was doing ultra distances, but I like 120-130 for most distances. I don't have it over 150 as theres no benefit and just more risk, and I can promise you I build up a good sweat!

What will be beneficial is slowly lowering the stroke rate to 18-20 instead of 26. As there is more inertia to contend with you need a more explosive drive to counteract it I say slowly as going from 26 straight to 18 will feel really strange, so lower it by two strokes per minute (SPM) a week so you can adapt to it. Also make sure that you maintain a fluid stroke with no discernible breaks in the drive, recovery and catch phases; so just slow down the recovery rather than rushing back up the slide rail.

For your leg drive think of it as jumping horizontally away from the rower only after your legs have finished pushing do you really engage your back and arms. They will be tensed ready for action but not playing a primary role until your legs have started to straighten.

Your arms should be able to pull back in a straight line, albeit slightly angled towards your lower ribs or higher if you prefer, and then just miss your knees as they straighten. If you need to break it out of a straight line to avoid your knees you're pulling too early.

[Kris7900]

Thanks again everyone. Here is a video of me doing it last night. This had me closer to 2:20 (was after my original workout when it felt like i wasn't even breaking a sweat or getting a workout).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAU6x_jwUOc

Be honest, but kind

A lot of great advice. The whole "breaking a sweat" thing is where i would like to start. If I am able to hit that 2:15-2:20 mark, how long should I row for knowing i"m just starting out and looking to get a good cardio workout in?

[Dangerscouse]

I'm not 100% sure but I think you need to engage your arms a bit quicker. If you flick the monitor on to 'force curve' it should be a fairly smooth hump, and if there's a bit of a dip you are losing some momentum and therefore using more energy. Apart from that I can't see much wrong with it at all.

I'd row for as long as you feel comfortable. If you run out of time then either increase the pace by 2 or 3 secs next session or increase the duration. 2:15-20 maybe too slow for you so don't restrict yourself to that pace. Generally within 10 mins you should know if you're working hard enough, even if it still feels fairly easy.

If by 20 mins it still feels too easy increase your pace as it is definitely too slow

[Allan Olesen]

Looks to me as you tend to start the motion of both arms, hip and legs at once when you do the recovery.

I try to do the recovery in reverse order of the drive: Arms first, then hip, then legs, of course with some overlap.

That was something I was taught in my few sessions of rowing on the water, where it is important for not getting the oar stuck behind your knees. To be honest, I don't know if this recovery sequence applies equally to ergometer rowing.

[Kris7900]

Thanks again, here is another video from this evening. It feels like I'm driving very hard with my legs but also makes me feel like i'm flying backwards too fast where my knees almost lock very quickly. My force curve was a very aggressive double diamond, so unsure how to smooth that out

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=709LfinplH8

[Allan Olesen]

It is a question of timing. The harder you push with your legs, the sooner you have to initiate your hip and arm movements to keep the continuous motion going.

Your recovery looks better in this video. The hands are past the knees before the knees start moving up - so on the water you would have adequate room for the oar.