Age related decline

[max_ratcliffe]

Thanks for the comments folks. I'm 52.

See if you can access this graph

https://www.flickr.com/photos/185090135 ... ed-public/

Mighty fine record keeping!

There's quite a lot of noise on the data, but I suspect that if you plotted it differently and stopped at 23/6/2015, there'd be no declining trend visible at all. At that point - if I'm reading the graph correctly - the frequency of your workouts decreased a fair bit.

So is that a reason - you started working out less halfway through 2015?

[lindsayh]

Do any people see improvement in their late 50’s. I see some of the amazing times by others on this forum, and it makes me think there is lots of room for me to improve. Or are all the excellent times by older people reflective of even stronger times in the past now in process of decline? Dave

Dave there is (of course) a point of no return where decline starts but IMO it is different for everyone and it depends a lot on when you start and what level of fitness you have at the beginning. I have crossed paths with a number of people improving into their 60s from a late start at this caper. My first erg was around 57 and improved significantly to PBs around 63ish (6:46 and 1:25) then slow decline since then. The power goes first so 500m times are more vulnerable that the longer pieces. I suspect that you are in a good position to improve for some years yet - you just have to work at it and maintain training intensity.

[Cyclingman1]

Being aged [73] and in decline, I wish to chime in. Of course all of us decline, at first gradually and then more rapidly. Where those inflection points are vary individually. There are several factors that play a large role in decline and those are illness, injury, and training, how much and what kind. For most, the decline will begin to increase in one's 50s. When the 60s hit, decline is accelerated somewhat. After 70, it's all down a steep hill.

Bumps in the road are harder and harder to overcome when one passes into one's sixties. It is hard to not be permanently set back.

And there is the alternate question of how much improvement is possible with aging. One has to know the starting point. A highly trained athlete at age 60, whether via erg or not, is not going to show improvement at age 70. On the other hand a couch potato at age 60 can show improvement with consistent training, but I doubt if the peak will be as high as the one starting off well trained.

Just to make things more concrete, I came to erging as a highly trained athlete, primarily cycling. Within 100 days of beginning on the erg, I did 6:40.7, Apr, 2012, age 66. But the dreaded illnesses and injuries kept hitting me every yr, until the big ones in Nov, 2017. I had lumbar surgery, a spinal leak, and hip replacement in a span of 6 months. In Oct, 2017, I was at 6:58 for 2K, age 71. In Sept, 2018, I was at 8:08 for 2K. Now in Oct, 2019, age 73, 2K is back to 7:13. I really cannot train as hard or as often as I did when first starting erging. Sub-7 is a goal, but it's not likely to happen.

As far as improvement goes, there is a gentleman ranked #1 for 10K, HWt, 70+, who claims to have improved from 43:33 to 38:14 in six months, at age 70. And apparently he did not start from scratch. That is a 48% increase in power output. Those numbers seem to defy what I know about aging, but I only report this.

Decline with aging is an endless debate that is relevant to us all. It really is sort of amazing how many of us are fighting it like crazy.

[KeithT]

Thanks for the comments folks. I'm 52.

See if you can access this graph

https://www.flickr.com/photos/185090135 ... ed-public/

Nomatter what, after 50 everybody starts going to slow, how much depends on lots of things. For me, same age, recovery is the weak link. The mind still can, but the body not anymore.
Try to manage that.

Re peds, have no experience with those, but in the fitness/bb scene those are widespread. You certainly can,t say if someone is a user. Sometimes its obvious, sometimes you really would not know. Difficult subject.

Agree with henry - the recovery is my biggest issue. I notice it more with CrossFit where I can keep up with the young guys on any given day but they can go right back the next day and go just as hard or even later in the same day and I will be sore and beat-up. I haven't really hit the decline on the ERG yet but I didn't get into ERging seriously until right before I turned 50 so the newbie gains overrode the age decline. That said I have improved on some stuff this year but at times feel like I am fighting more to maintain and avoid the decline - I hate the idea of getting slower but I know it's gong to happen eventually, just hope (as do all us 50+ folks) that I can keep it at bay for as long as possible.

[nick rockliff]

Good topic and one I can relate to

I've been at this erging lark across three decades now 40s, 50s and 60s starting when I was 45 back in 2002 but seriously in 2003. Hit my best times when I was 48 but declined then only due to being diagnosed with bowel cancer. Had it not been for that, I think I would have progressed over the next few years into my 50s.

I did a 6.16 2k age 48 then after I recovered from the cancer I did a 6.24 at BIRC in 2008 age 51 and a 6.24 on Rowpro when I was 54. I could still do two session a day with only a couple of recovery days a month.

Training dropped of during my late 50s but picked it up prior to turning 60 when I set 60s British records for 60 min and Half Marathon. Held British HM records in my 40s 50s and 60s.

I've found fitness and performance drops quicker when volume drops but comes back again with volume. I'm still coming to terms that I am slower now than I was 15 years ago and still trying to work out if it's muscular or cardiovascular that has declined the most or a bit of both.

In reality, I was faster at age 55 than I was age 45 and not much slower at 55 than I was at my best age 48.

Will have to see where my 60s take my, will be 63 next April and would like to think I will be able to produce similar times then to when I turned 60 subject to similar training which will probably need 250k to 300k per month.

[adccl8z]

Thanks for the comments folks. I'm 52.

See if you can access this graph

https://www.flickr.com/photos/185090135 ... ed-public/

Mighty fine record keeping!

There's quite a lot of noise on the data, but I suspect that if you plotted it differently and stopped at 23/6/2015, there'd be no declining trend visible at all. At that point - if I'm reading the graph correctly - the frequency of your workouts decreased a fair bit.

So is that a reason - you started working out less halfway through 2015?

Thank you! To give more context I am LWT and although the sessions (per the graph) have sporadic periods, my fitness regime has been pretty consistent. Not all shown on the graph as these are just the 8*1:30 interval sessions.

I had not considered plotting up to 2015 only, but tried as you suggest, and excel shows no discernable decline in trend. A good decade!! (37-46).

I will keep plugging away and see what I can do. There's definitely some erg technique which will help me a little, but breaking 3500 is *probably* a thing of the past. I'm not in the market for PEDs.. that's just not me Vs old me

Thanks all for the submissions.

[KeithT]

Good topic and one I can relate to

I've been at this erging lark across three decades now 40s, 50s and 60s starting when I was 45 back in 2002 but seriously in 2003. Hit my best times when I was 48 but declined then only due to being diagnosed with bowel cancer. Had it not been for that, I think I would have progressed over the next few years into my 50s.

I did a 6.16 2k age 48 then after I recovered from the cancer I did a 6.24 at BIRC in 2008 age 51 and a 6.24 on Rowpro when I was 54. I could still do two session a day with only a couple of recovery days a month.

Training dropped of during my late 50s but picked it up prior to turning 60 when I set 60s British records for 60 min and Half Marathon. Held British HM records in my 40s 50s and 60s.

I've found fitness and performance drops quicker when volume drops but comes back again with volume. I'm still coming to terms that I am slower now than I was 15 years ago and still trying to work out if it's muscular or cardiovascular that has declined the most or a bit of both.

In reality, I was faster at age 55 than I was age 45 and not much slower at 55 than I was at my best age 48.

Will have to see where my 60s take my, will be 63 next April and would like to think I will be able to produce similar times then to when I turned 60 subject to similar training which will probably need 250k to 300k per month.

Interesting info. - thanks for sharing. This gives me hope to keep improving and not give into "old age".

[AlecSpa]

Clearly we are all going to decline as we age. I grew up in a heavily sports/training/health-conscious town but I had always measured my fitness more or less from a cardiovascular performance basis. How fast can I hike the mountain, how far/fast could I run or how was I doing racing bicycles was how I generally measured fitness.

Of course I had also spent a fair amount of time lifting weights to one degree or another but I don’t think that had the influence on me that cardiovascular fitness did.

In my mid-50s (62 now) I finally had the epiphany that fitness really wasn’t just a measure of cardiovascular fitness but had to include my ability to perform all physical tasks. At 55 years old I walked into a CrossFit box, went through their start up program and was off to the races.

My personal approach is a warm-up, a specific weight training component followed by the CrossFit workout/WOD. It was initially brutally apparent that while I had a great cardiovascular base my physical strength for metabolic work was sorely lacking.

At 59 years old I had developed a 1 RM of 400 pound deadlifts, 300 pound back squat and 200 pound benchpress, Not giant numbers for many but when you are 6’ 9” your limb levers are certainly not designed for lifting weights!

Between the weight training and the full body metabolic conditioning, my ability to perform hiking/running/cycling and on an erg dramatically increased.

Despite a couple years of very irregular training I am still physically stronger than when I first began CrossFit despite the fact my cardiovascular fitness has suffered from that irregular training schedule.

Finally using my size for once in my life too an advantage, I’ve started rowing on water and hope to compete in the future. I think the most important physical component of that endeavor will be maintaining solid holistic fitness which for me has proven to be a huge advantage in my cardiovascular based interests.

I also believe that muscle mass is a great insurance policy against sickness and disease and the effect they have on your body.

[Eric308]

Don't overthink it. I've been on here since 11/99 (used to log results in little books and send them in to C2). I'm not big into charts and all that to see how bad we suck compared to 20 years ago. I'm almost 74 now with 2 knee replacements, a total quad rupture, torn triceps, prostate cancer, glaucoma, macular degeneration, and cataracts. Of course I can't bust 7 anymore. Who cares? I figure I'd be dead by now if not for the C2. Just keep rowing and enjoy life while you can.

[adccl8z]

I figure I'd be dead by now if not for the C2. Just keep rowing and enjoy life while you can.

Marvellous statements. Thank you Eric.

The last time I did my 'go to' interval routine (last Sunday), upon completion of the final interval, which usually has me completely wasted, well this time i must have pushed that bit harder on the final 20 strokes. Jeez I thought was going to pass out. I just could not get the air in and out of my lungs quick enough once I'd completed the final stroke.
Whilst in this vulnerable state, quietly wheezing and groaning and gently rocking to and fro, legs akimbo and arms flopped, my wife happened to pop into the garage (where I am on the erg) to unload the washing machine. She didn't even turn her back to look at me, check if I was sort-of-ok, see if I had flopped to the floor in ruin. She merrily went about her business for 30secs, and left, closing the door softly behind her, and left me to my frenzied gasps.

I asked her later if she thought my condition was a little unusual. '...but you always overdo it' she says, '...that thing will kill you' she muses.
"well, I'll die happy" I suggest in return

[Dangerscouse]

I figure I'd be dead by now if not for the C2. Just keep rowing and enjoy life while you can.

Marvellous statements. Thank you Eric.

The last time I did my 'go to' interval routine (last Sunday), upon completion of the final interval, which usually has me completely wasted, well this time i must have pushed that bit harder on the final 20 strokes. Jeez I thought was going to pass out. I just could not get the air in and out of my lungs quick enough once I'd completed the final stroke.
Whilst in this vulnerable state, quietly wheezing and groaning and gently rocking to and fro, legs akimbo and arms flopped, my wife happened to pop into the garage (where I am on the erg) to unload the washing machine. She didn't even turn her back to look at me, check if I was sort-of-ok, see if I had flopped to the floor in ruin. She merrily went about her business for 30secs, and left, closing the door softly behind her, and left me to my frenzied gasps.

I asked her later if she thought my condition was a little unusual. '...but you always overdo it' she says, '...that thing will kill you' she muses.
"well, I'll die happy" I suggest in return

Hahahaha, love it. My wife initially used to worry when it went quiet i.e. when I was doing intervals, or when I was making all sorts of crazy noises. Now she also accepts it as normal, and thankfully she likes to exercise too so she does understand

[Dangerscouse]

Don't overthink it. I've been on here since 11/99 (used to log results in little books and send them in to C2). I'm not big into charts and all that to see how bad we suck compared to 20 years ago. I'm almost 74 now with 2 knee replacements, a total quad rupture, torn triceps, prostate cancer, glaucoma, macular degeneration, and cataracts. Of course I can't bust 7 anymore. Who cares? I figure I'd be dead by now if not for the C2. Just keep rowing and enjoy life while you can.

This is an inspirational post. More power to you

[Rod]

I'm a 62 year old Lwt and getting faster at some of the longer distances than when I was a Hwt in my 50's so you can still improve if you do the right training.

The big difference for me has been the increase in metes rowed with a big emphasis on long sessions at a low (below 70% of max) Hear rate.

Give it a go....you could get some PB's yet!

[Edward4492]

I've seen a steady predictable decline. My peak was 6:59 as a 58 yr old LWT, done in the gym. My best competition time was 7:05 (LWT) in 2015, age 59, in 2018 best was 7:18, 2019 7:26. All done in competition. So about 21s lost over a 4 yr span, a 5s per year drop off. For me the difference has been a total switch to training and racing OTW, mostly a 1x. I'm off the erg totally from April 1st till right around mid-November. Also I just don't have the desire to go as totally deep in training as I know I have to go to produce fast erg times. I keep getting faster OTW as there is so much to be gained by technique improvements, navigation, rigging, etc. I'm hoping to stop the bleeding on the erg at sub 7:30. As for PED's, I would never be the one to flat out say someone is taking PED's, but don't be naïve enough to believe that because there's no money in rowing or erging that drug use does not exist. I was a very active masters bicycle racer (300 races in 10 years) and saw several local masters get busted at state and national championships and one in NYC at a grand fondo. With that said I still think it's minimal. In particular I don't think the guys that have an extended history of solid performance are using PED's. Drug use will catch up with you at some point in time.
(Side Note: Nice 6:54 Rod, you continue to get faster!)

[lancecampeau]

Some of the results you can find on the Erg fall way outside the normal distribution curves.

I also noticed that when I started to look closely at the yearly records on the Concept2 site (not sure about the other forums and sites). Some of those performances seem a little too good.... enough to raise an eyebrow or two.