Weight Training For Erging

[old] starboardrigged1seat · Post by **[old] starboardrigged1seat** » January 3rd, 2005, 7:07 pm

Yoda, I tried applying some of the Super Slow principal to my core routine today, and slowed everything down to a crawl. Boy, I forgot how much that stuff burns!! I was counting alot slower, but cursing alot more.

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » January 3rd, 2005, 9:09 pm

John, Who said that? I said that I felt that doing pullups are safer with the palms facing each other. I reason I feel it's safer is that the hands are in a neutral position. Think about it. When you pickup an object from the floor, if you notice your hand position, they will be facing each other. If you raise your hands above your head, what postion are your hands in? One of my most guarded secrets to getting my bench press up as high as it was, was the use of a bar I designed and built. It allowed me to perform bench with my hands facing each other. When I was going through therapy on my bionic shoulders, every stretch that the therapist took me through was with my hands in that same neutral position. And I had to do the stretches SSSSLLLLLOOOOOWWWW. Just as a matter of interest regarding Paul Anderson. He didn't have equipment at home for him to do his squats. So, he dug a hole in the back yard deep enough that he could do his squats. He would load the bar with more weight than he could squat with, then climb down this ladder into the hole and do 1/4 squats. After he felt he could handle that weight with a deeper squat, he'd throw in several shovelfulls of dirt. He continued to do this until he could squat the weight. Then he'd dig out the hole again and start all over. I beleive that's called ingenuity. (spelling) Starboard, A good cursing session always improves one's lifting and training ability. I have a lot of problems with working my abs with SS. Probably because the movements are so doggone short. This is really a good thread. I hope it continues. Yoda

[old] Bill · Post by **[old] Bill** » January 3rd, 2005, 9:54 pm

Hello, Be careful when digging holes deep enough to do squats in. The sides can collapse. People get hurt. We have very strict procedures at work for managing people who have to work in trenches or holes or confined spaces. Anything deeper than 1.5m you simply do not enter. Carefully assess the conditions of sidewalls before entering anything shallower. Bill

[old] kwadams · Post by **[old] kwadams** » January 4th, 2005, 1:09 pm

Well, Yoda, just to report back--I did my first SS session this morning. The burn is quite intense. I wasn't sure what weight to use, but I think I guessed pretty well as I was usually maxing out at around 4 reps. I was getting a fair amount of "shaking" during some of the exercises. Is this just the lactate acid build-up? I agree with you that the mental part is as intense as the physical. It's so easy to stop at 3 reps rather than burn through a 4th, but I did my best. Is there any magic to the 20 second reps or is it OK to actually go a little longer? I would think longer is OK, rather than shorter. I was really going slooooow a couple of times and noticed from the clock that it was taking longer than 10 seconds per movement. Anyway, I worked out a whole training routine last night and I'm going to give this a try for a while to see how it goes. Tomorrow I'm back to the erg for a nice steady state. Kevin

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » January 4th, 2005, 1:20 pm

Kevin, You da man!!!! It will take several workouts to really get into the timing of your reps. It's okay to go a little shorter on the exercises that have a short range of motion. And it isn't going to hurt to go over either. After you've got 8-10 weeks of SS under your belt, then you can start experimenting with your rep speed. Example; lower the weight in 7-8 seconds and raise the weight in 12-13 seconds. It will shock you what a difference that makes after getting use to 10 up and 10 down. It's the total inroad that counts. The magic 120 seconds. That shaking that you made reference to is nothing more than the adaption to SS. It will go away after a couple workouts. The ERG tomorrow, huh? You'll know whether or not your SS workout caused any soreness doing that. It will probably help with recovery. Yoda

[old] Paul Smith · Post by **[old] Paul Smith** » January 12th, 2005, 10:34 am

OK Yoda I gave superslow a shot this morning. All my weight training since starting erging has been sporadic and had a lack of structure so figured I had nothing to lose. I did the following: Bench Press, free weights, dropped down to 60kg and only managed 3 reps so then dropped down to 40kg and got the 6 reps. Surprised how much weight I had to drop from what I'd do 'regular' (90kg 9reps) Parallel grip pulldown, dropped to 55kg just got 6 reps then dropped to 45kg for another set of 6. (regular 80kg 15reps) The 45 was a touch too easy though should have used 50kg Squat, bodyweight 3 sets of 6 Dbell shoulder press dropped to 10kg bells for 1 set of 6 (regular 17kg 12reps) All were done 10secs up and 10secs down except squats which was a touch longer. Yeah it was hard and although I did expect to drop alot of weight I was shocked at how much. I would hope that after a few workouts I'd see the weight go up a fair chunk, would I? As to the productivity, I've no idea. Sure I can see how this would be VERY intense when you got used to it but then so can training at a regular speed with high reps, medium reps or even low reps. How is using this much less weight going to be better for me? Regards Paul

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 12th, 2005, 2:27 pm

Paul, Interesting results. Yoda, Related to Paul's question, how does improvement at SS relate to (going back and having) improvement at regular type repetitions or maximum strength tests. Example, if someone has a maximum overhead press of 100 pounds, then improves at SS, might they then improve to 110 pounds etc.

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » January 12th, 2005, 3:09 pm

John and Paul, You guys ask tough questions. Not really, they are pretty much what everyone asks. John, There is no way to predict how much of a gain will come from doing SS vs Traditional training. Will a person have a gain? Yes, but it will only show up after they have returned to the protocol they were using when they did press the original 100#'s. Paul, The rule of thumb when changing from traditional training to SS is about 50% of the weight. That's a general guess, but is ususallly pretty close. It really depends on the person and the type of training they have been doing. Let me ask, why did you do the second set of pulldowns and a second and third set of Squats? If you have the resistance right, then there is no need to do more than one set. But it has to be taken to muscular failure. As far as increases are concerned. Yes the poundage will rise. You may be stuck at a given weigh for 2 workouts and suddenly there is an increase on one exercise, but not another. Then 2 more workouts and a different exercise will need to be increased. There are a lot of variables. How is this better than the traditional methods? One is the safety factor. And that is mainly because of the removal of momentum. Because you've removed the momentum the muscles are doing the work, not momentum. And in most cases, the actual inroad time is greater. 9 reps at 4 seconds per rep equals 36 seconds. Now you take a break. Maybe 1 minute and then repeat this two more times. If my math is correct you will have spent 108 seconds of exercising plus 2 minutes of rest. With SS, you will have spent 120 seconds of exercising with NO rest. A major increase in intensity. A long time ago the vertical leg press was the peice of equipment that we used to supplement our squats. Then someone said if I build a leg press with an angle it will be safer. Bull!!!! There are safety stops on the vertical leg press just as there are on the angled style. The real reason was that they could put more weight on the unit to workout and, they thought, it made them look stronger. I won 50 bucks from a guy that out weighed me by a good 200 pounds in a gym one day. The bet was that, although he was using 1700 pounds on a 70 degree leg press, he could lift more on the vertical leg press than me. I won. Weight doesn't mean anything to anyone other than the individuals ego. It's important to increase the resistance, but it's far more important to get as much from each exercise regardless the resistance. I hope I answered everyones questions. If not, do another post and I'll try again. No yelling, though. Yoda

[old] Kudos · Post by **[old] Kudos** » January 12th, 2005, 3:18 pm

you only won cause your legs are 16 inches long! (I am yelling)

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » January 12th, 2005, 3:27 pm

And you promised NOT to tell anyone. Yoda

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 12th, 2005, 5:32 pm

Yoda, With one exception, I agree with your last message, however feel there is no reason to keep going to failure. To the contrary it is best to NOT go to failure. That is probably why it is taking you so long to recover from your sessions. Note this is one of the primary tenaments between Olympic weightlifters and body builders. BB always go to failure whereas Olympic weightlifters never do. The objective here (with them) is to increase the amount that can be successfully lifted, at the lowest body weight (or while keeping weight the same). I really don't know why you have suggested going to failure, as the objective is not to blitz the muscles but get stronger. Your 70+ friend does not go to failure and he seems to have it pretty much right.

[old] Yoda1 · Post by **[old] Yoda1** » January 12th, 2005, 6:45 pm

John, You've been reading again, haven't you? You know how dangerous that is, don't you? Bodybuilders work their muscle to acheive a pump. Going to failure in the SS protocol is entirely different. Bodybuilders have no desire to build strength. They could care less. They are only concerned about size and balance in their sport. Olympic lifters and power lifters are the direct opposite. They could care less about how they look. They just want the power from lifting. And if you think that Olympic liftes and powerlifters don't work to failure all you have to do is go to a hardcore gym and watch. But it is different than failure in the SS protocol. Here's the difference. Olympic and power lifters are going to failure, but the failure is accomplished through the explosive moves. It's isn't always because of muscular failure. And there is the difference. With SS, a person is, if they are trying to gain strength, going to need to go to muscular failure. No explosion, no momentum, just muscular failure. You're right about my mountain climbing friend. He doesn't take it to failure but maintains a level of strength and health that he is satisfied with. And that's okay. And you're right about not having to take it to complete muscular failure to have SS work for you. It will still work, just not as quickly. I have a few clients that use SS in that manner. They are happy with their progress, so I have to be happy for them, as well. Hey, how your glide board coming? Yoda

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » January 12th, 2005, 8:01 pm

Yoda, I've been lazy and not made it to the store yet. I trained and competed at Olympic Lifting for a year or two in my mid 20's, doing a 220 snatch and 285 clean and jerk at 146 pounds, also 5 sets of 5 with 310 full squats and a 386 single. Some national class weight lifters trained there, who were very helpful and we had a great coach, Bob Hise. The objective was to NEVER fail a lift. You want every lift to be successful. Sure it often happened that people would miss lifts, but that was a mistake and not intentional. I recall American record holder Russell Knipp going through an entire workout and making every single lift. I took that as a clue and endeavored to do the same. You will often see world class weightlifters even going through COMPETITIONS and not missing a lift. They know what they can do and don't go beyond that. Sure that is reaching a maximum tension, but not failure. Perhaps it's a question of semantics, but I see failure as either pumping the muscle too much, i.e. too anaerobic, or else exceeding one's strength and capacity.

[old] la_flaca · Post by **[old] la_flaca** » January 12th, 2005, 8:29 pm

In my case, weight lifting made me stronger and more powerfull, as a complement to the full sport. I won more muscle mass, and weight (I need it a lot!). But, like and old coach from arond here used to say, KILOMETERS MAKES CHAMPIONS, so, you wanna row better, row more!. Cheers!.

[old] Paul Smith · Post by **[old] Paul Smith** » January 14th, 2005, 1:48 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Yoda1 @ Jan 12 2005, 02:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Let me ask, why did you do the second set of pulldowns and a second and third set of Squats? If you have the resistance right, then there is no need to do more than one set.  </td></tr></table> Yoda, it was as I said my first try. The first bench weight was too heavy so I did another set to get the 6 reps. Pulldowns, dunno just felt I could/should do another set, first was probably a bit light. With the squats I did 3 sets because bodyweight for one set was too easy, same for second set, only really felt it on third set. There's no way I'd try this SS with a barbell on my back but I guess I could chain a bit of weight around my waist to make that first set harder. Just feeling my way really. Paul