Looking for training advice

[FurianXO]

I'm not looking to break any records or anything, just progress. I'm a 160lb, 5'9",48 year old male, and typically row on Tuesdays/Thursdays. I do strength training M,W,F.

I'm currently sitting at about 23 minutes for 5K, but don't seem to be improving. My S/M varies from 20-27, but I try to keep that on the lower end. At first I was on the upper end all of the time, but read to try slowing down. I know there are various programs with progression in mind, but I want to keep up with my strength training. Is it possible to progress at both?

[jackarabit]

I commend you for avoiding the two sport trap that soon catches up with those who attempt to train 16 days a week in seven. So you’re a focused realist and comfy with five per week. If you can handle lift,row,lift,row,lift and two off, row,lift,row,lift,row and two off should change the balance just enuf. You can flip the stack every week and render unto two Caesars. That’s keeping all the balls in the air until you have an inclination to pursue a specific rowing performance goal in addition to seeing the 5k time improve, at which time you can say a resounding yes to erg training and leave the plates on the pegs for a period specified by a goal-directed cycle of 9-13wks duration. Simple, yes?

[Sander1989]

Hi Furian,

I'm doing the same thing you are, also around that pace for a 5k.
At the moment i am doing the beginner pete plan:

https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/

I dot this 5 times a week. On top of that, after the row, I will do weights on 3, maybe 4 of those days. They consist of benchpress, inlcine benchpress, deadrow brabells, pull ups, etc. I usually divide chest/triceps/shoulders and back/biceps. On the days I don't row I do some calfs and DL/squats. And one day completly nothing.

I feel it is good to maintain overall strentgh like this. Do not expect to make massive gains in strentgh training tho. Most of my workouts are aimed at keeping strength, muscle etc, and my rowing is focussed on getting my durability and cardio fitness up. As soon as I reach my desired cardio fitness level, i'll tune down my rowing to maintenance level and focus more on strentgh training.

And it works out very well for me.

Noted, I am 29 and 6'1, 225lbs

[hjs]

I'm not looking to break any records or anything, just progress. I'm a 160lb, 5'9",48 year old male, and typically row on Tuesdays/Thursdays. I do strength training M,W,F.

I'm currently sitting at about 23 minutes for 5K, but don't seem to be improving. My S/M varies from 20-27, but I try to keep that on the lower end. At first I was on the upper end all of the time, but read to try slowing down. I know there are various programs with progression in mind, but I want to keep up with my strength training. Is it possible to progress at both?

Lower ratings are fine for training, but not for time trials. There you use the rating that feels best.

Rowing is about endurance, you simply need volume to improve. If possible combine weights and rowing. But do what you like to do most. If that us weights, don,t bother about rowing speed.

[jamesg]

about 23 minutes for 5K, but don't seem to be improving.

That's not bad anyway, given that you're not training for it. Try getting some endurance, with a good stroke (5-6 W'). It'll only take a month or so, at 20-23, trialling at say 27, maybe after a few 5 minute intervals to get the feel.

[FurianXO]

All excellent replies, thank you!

On my strength days, I typically do a full body workout. Squats, Bench, Shoulder Press, Pull ups, Curls, and some core stuff worked in between that. On Wednesdays, I mix it up a bit, and switch out the exercises for something else. Alternating between 2 and 3 rowing days seems like a great idea and will give it a go. I'll also try to incorporate some of Pete's plan into my rows, rather than a straight 5k every time.

Thanks all!

[Quatroux]

First off, you can progress in both. You will eventually have a difficult time recovering if both weights and rowing are progressing. When this happens, you will have to start introducing light days and be ok with seeing a new personal best less often.
As you have observed, you can't keep improving a 5k by doing 5k's. You also cannot do an all-out 5k every time you row nor could you keep doing it even once a week.
I'd try stealing the short intervals from the Pete Plan for one of your rows each week. Something like an 8x500, 4x1k, or outright Tabata. These workouts give you the most bang for the buck. They are also pretty hard to recover from.
The second (and only other) row of the week can also be one of those short interval workouts. Eventually, you just won't be able to keep up this kind of intensity. When you feel tired and beat up, switch to the middle distance intervals like a 5x1500 or 4x2k which will be a bit slower workouts.
Ok, why did I propose two shortish interval rows for a strength-endurance sport dominated by volume workouts? You only have two days a week to row. You can't train like everyone else. You also don't need to train like everyone else. You said your goal wasn't "to break records or anything". Sports science has proven that you can get a long way with interval training. Use it up for all it is worth.
If you change your mind and decide you want to focus more on rowing, then you need to start adding LISS/LSD rows to your schedule. Endurance is the base you need if you want to chase fast times for these longer distances (5k is a longer distance). However, don't short change how far strength training and intervals can get you. Don't spend all day in the gym when a quick workout will get you where you want to go.

[FurianXO]

Did my first real interval, and it was much harder than i thought it would be. Started a little too fast in the beginning, but slowed down a bit after the first 2. I got mixed up and did 7 total instead of 6! hah. Was def a great workout.

https://log.concept2.com/profile/1274793/log/39154183

[Gammmmo]

I'm not looking to break any records or anything, just progress. I'm a 160lb, 5'9",48 year old male, and typically row on Tuesdays/Thursdays. I do strength training M,W,F.

I'm currently sitting at about 23 minutes for 5K, but don't seem to be improving. My S/M varies from 20-27, but I try to keep that on the lower end. At first I was on the upper end all of the time, but read to try slowing down. I know there are various programs with progression in mind, but I want to keep up with my strength training. Is it possible to progress at both?

Well...tell us more about your strength training. How long have you been doing it? What does your programme look like and how has that changed? What sort of progress have you made? TBH 23mins for a 5K suggests you've got plenty of room for improvement and I can only imagine that you can improve that AND gain strength so long as you haven't got towards your genetic potential at the weights.

As I'm sure you realise, trying to improve at an endurance related activity AND get stronger is a fine balancing act. You will never optimise both but you can give yourself the best chance with clever programming/scheduling. It sounds as if you want to get better at both, which may well be quite possible. An approach might be to periodise your training effectively prioritising endurance or strength at different times of the year.

[lancecampeau]

My favorite training pieces are...

- 5 x 750m / 1:00r ( at 240lbs my pace is about 1:55)

or if im feeling a bit more energetic...

- 6 x 750m / 3:00r. (for me, the pace is about 1:53)

These are short/manageable HIIT sessions that have helped me a lot over the last 3 years.

Start with the 5 x at about 2:04 pace and see how that feels...

[FurianXO]

Well...tell us more about your strength training. How long have you been doing it? What does your programme look like and how has that changed? What sort of progress have you made?

I've been strength training since the end of December. Mostly full body workouts, 3 days a week (primary exercises, like bench, squat, etc.) After a couple of months of that, I started Athleanx AX1 which is very hard to explain. It's basically M,W,F strength days, but the exercises change every day and most days are either push or pull. Tuesday/Thursdays were endurance days with that program, so that's when i started introducing rowing. My first recorded row is 4/30/2019 (4,014m/20:19.9/2:31.9). Doesn't seem like i have improved much at all in three months of solid 2 day a week rowing. My strength is definitely improving though. For example, my bench has gone up a solid 40-50 lbs. I've since gone back to my own strength program which i mention earlier in one of my posts.

But... there is a caveat. I didn't mention this in my original post because I didn't want to make this about medical stuff. I am having some leg weakness, potentially being caused by a bulging disk that is touching some nerves. I feel it is holding me back. It only affects my legs (outside quads)... basically, they feel sore all the time... normal muscle soreness, like after a big workout. I'm in the process of talking that out with the docs, and trying some natural solutions now.

[Boomer]

My favorite training pieces are...

- 5 x 750m / 1:00r ( at 240lbs my pace is about 1:55)

or if im feeling a bit more energetic...

- 6 x 750m / 3:00r. (for me, the pace is about 1:53)

These are short/manageable HIIT sessions that have helped me a lot over the last 3 years.

Start with the 5 x at about 2:04 pace and see how that feels...

You recommended these to me last year and they made a helluva difference. 6x750 r3 is my go to interval piece.

[FurianXO]

Feel like i made some progress on intervals today. Also, could you guys critique my form?

Video:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w5rQiM ... sp=sharing

Log:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17GUKY9 ... sp=sharing

[MWS24]

Hi Fellow Ergers

I’m pretty new to this caper but am thoroughly enjoying things so far. Have been at it about 2 months now and have seen some decent improvements:

2K: down to 7:20 from 7:55
5K: 19:20 down from 22:00
30mins: best of 7462m (first one was barely 6660)

Have been able to stretch out to 10km efforts (41:23) unbroken which I never would have thought possible when I started.
Though I don’t feel like my 500m max effort is very good (1:37) and would be keen for some advice on how to improve?
I am largely working on longer sessions – 30mins as this seems to be the best for weight loss? Am I right in this thinking?

By way of back ground I am:

42 y.o male
193cm
140+ kgs

Regards

Matt

[jamesg]

Your feet are too high and your style and sequences do not let you work hard with your legs. This stops you from training to beyond a certain level of endurance.

Necessary and sufficient for fitness will be standard rowing style with long continuous distances, fast but at low ratings, with continuous increment.