Low rate fast pace....how?!

[Boomer]

I just saw Sam Blyth on FB post a 1:53 split at r16. Any idea what kind of technique body type, stroke type makes this possible? I tried it today and it was impossible to get anywhere below 2:00/500m at a rate less than 18.

[Ombrax]

As I would expect, he looks like he's a super-strong guy (and an ex-rugby player):

https://youtu.be/WG3p0TABRXw

https://fmrowing.com/team/sam-blythe/

[Dangerscouse]

To be honest that will be fairly easy for Sam. I have seen 1:38 @ r18 from others, and I can do a 1:54 r18 for 10 miles. It's all about having explosive power in your legs, core and arms which only comes with time lots of practice and to some extent good genetics.

Sam is a very strong rower and I think his 2k PB is 6:10ish.

[jamesg]

1.53 is 240 Watt, and 1 W is 1 Nm/s.

At rate 16 he pulled 16 x L x F x 9.81 / 60 Nm/s where F is the average force in kg and L is the net stroke length in meters.

Taking L as 1 meter, F = 240 x 60 / 16 x 9.81 = 92 kg

So he did it by pulling long strokes, hard, which most likely means he is large, fit and strong, especially if he continued for any length of time.

In terms of single strokes, 240/16 = 15 Watt-minutes per stroke. At rate 35 that would put him faster than 6 minutes.

Your 200W at 18 is a stroke worth 11 Watt-minutes, so you're close.

[hobbit]

From the photo, it looks like he is really leaning back a long way at the end of the stroke - more like 2 o'clock or 2:30 than the recommended 1 o'clock. Thoughts?

[Tim huges]

Not exactly the same but i can hold 1:46 at r20 for a fair amount of time (never tested as such, but i often throw in 4min of power strokes on long pieces) ...ive been working on rating up which i have stuggled with and im hoping over time i can apply more power at higher ratings.

Im no giant at 6ft but i do have comparatively short legs, was always great at deadlifts and squats because of it. They are naturally pretty big and strong and i only have to look at a squat rack for them to grow...not quite but you get the idea! I think some of that stuff has transfered over to my erging...as i say, i fall apart at higher rates.

Obviously im new so im not preaching to anybody but personally i have noticed hand speed/power at the finnish can shave off a fair chunk of a split. Erging is mostly legs, so when im on the erg its easy for me to focus just on applying power through the legs and the arms are an afterthought. Likewise, overusing the arms at the catch doesnt feel very efficient...although i can get away with it for a 500m or something. Hanging off the handle with locked arms and applying power with the arms at just the right time has given me the best results...perhaps thats an obvious thing to say but for me its easy to make the mistake of thinking just LEGS LEGS LEGS.

To answer your question, im not sure...body mechanics? Still...i wish i was 6ft 5inches.

[Anth_F]

I'm more in the camp of Why? than how.

I don't see a need to row as low as r16, if that was done over a significant period of time.

[Dangerscouse]

From the photo, it looks like he is really leaning back a long way at the end of the stroke - more like 2 o'clock or 2:30 than the recommended 1 o'clock. Thoughts?

He always leans back a really long way. I can't figure out how he makes it work, but he does, and he's 5'9" I think. Some rowers do seem to like really leaning backwards and getting a very long stroke. Personally I'm happier with a more 'clipped' stroke length of 1.39- 1.45, but I see some with lengths of 1.60+

I'm more in the camp of Why? than how.

I don't see a need to row as low as r16, if that was done over a significant period of time.

Yeah, good point. I don't really go below 19, sometimes it's 18 and I have done one r16 session before just because I was feeling tired and unmotivated.

[jimmyshand]

After checking the memory of the gym erg on holiday, I have the opposite question: how can you row at such a high rate with such a slow split?! Some crazy pieces recorded on every gym erg I see. Very occasionally I see someone who appears to know what they've doing but seems like a shame given how great it can be.

I know, terrible form, etc etc but it is a bit baffling. Mind you I am sure I would have been guilty of it at one point before I discovered this world of the erg.

[Anth_F]

I'm more in the camp of Why? than how.

I don't see a need to row as low as r16, if that was done over a significant period of time.

Yeah, good point. I don't really go below 19, sometimes it's 18 and I have done one r16 session before just because I was feeling tired and unmotivated.

Hell i used to row a lot at r19's, but for some reason nowadays r21 is sometimes a challenge to sit on. It feels slow.

The only r16 stuff i can ever remember doing was occasionally on cooldowns. But even then it was very seldom done.

[Dangerscouse]

After checking the memory of the gym erg on holiday, I have the opposite question: how can you row at such a high rate with such a slow split?! Some crazy pieces recorded on every gym erg I see. Very occasionally I see someone who appears to know what they've doing but seems like a shame given how great it can be.

I know, terrible form, etc etc but it is a bit baffling. Mind you I am sure I would have been guilty of it at one point before I discovered this world of the erg.

Hahaha, yeah I have seen 3:50 pace at r40 this morning and sometimes i have seen over 4:00 pace BUT at a much more sensible rate of circa r32

[hjs]

From the photo, it looks like he is really leaning back a long way at the end of the stroke - more like 2 o'clock or 2:30 than the recommended 1 o'clock. Thoughts?

Yes he does, he is close to vertical. See his instagram.

He is relative short, around 180 but heavy, 100kg ish. Pb just below 6 min.

[hjs]

I'm more in the camp of Why? than how.

I don't see a need to row as low as r16, if that was done over a significant period of time.

Rowers often do not weaken the stroke, so the only way to make it “easy” is lowering the rate. This was relax pace for him. Seen him do r14 stuff even.

[G-dub]

What I couldn’t hear in that race video is if Paul Buchanan broke 6:00. Has he done it yet? I know he has been working on that for a bit. Maybe it’s behind him now

[Allan Olesen]

I'm more in the camp of Why? than how.

I don't see a need to row as low as r16, if that was done over a significant period of time.

In the Wolverine plan, the L4 workouts at the start of a training period have a lot of r16 at roughly 126% of your 2k pace (or 50% of your 2k power).

It was mentioned somewhere in this thread that his 2k is 6:10. So the r16 intervals in an Wolverine L4 workout would be at 126% * 6:10 / 4 = 1:56.5.

OK. He did this one 3.5 seconds faster than Wolverine pace. I guess he was showing off a bit. But it still looks like a valid workout to me.