VO2max calculator is a joke!

[jost]

So im new to rowing, but have been digging through the data and am just stunned at what rowers can do.

I put my best 2000M sprint time into the concept2 VOX2max calculator and am right on the highest line labeled "Excellent".

So at first I was happy. Until I looked at the online log book averages for verified rows. (people my age and weight)

The average rows for 60 minute rows, are rowing at a pace significantly higher than my pace on my best 2000M sprint, that qualified me as having excellent VO2MAX. At 2000 meters my heart is about to explode, and im about to fall off the erg. Then trying to imagine someone going significantly faster for a full hour, wow.

What a joke. "Excellent" should be renamed to "Pathetic" on the VO2MAX calculator.
Either that, or you all are cybergenetic terminators in disguise, able to blow away my sprint pace for over an hour straight! :

WHAT ..... THE..... HELL.......

[Tim huges]

GET TO THEEE CHOPPPERRRRRRR

[Dangerscouse]

The VO2 max calculator isn't reliable and the only way you can test it properly is under lab conditions, but there is a world of difference between an all out effort 2k and a 60 mins session.

Also, as you're new to rowing you will improve quickly (newbie gains) and a lot of the people, if not all of them, you are comparing against have been rowing for may years. Erg fitness is only improved by lots and lots of metres so I'm sure that if you put in the effort you will be shocked at the progress you make over the next 12 months or so.

Out of interest what is your age and what was your 2k time?

[Gammmmo]

So im new to rowing, but have been digging through the data and am just stunned at what rowers can do.

I put my best 2000M sprint time into the concept2 VOX2max calculator and am right on the highest line labeled "Excellent".

So at first I was happy. Until I looked at the online log book averages for verified rows. (people my age and weight)

The average rows for 60 minute rows, are rowing at a pace significantly higher than my pace on my best 2000M sprint, that qualified me as having excellent VO2MAX. At 2000 meters my heart is about to explode, and im about to fall off the erg. Then trying to imagine someone going significantly faster for a full hour, wow.

What a joke. "Excellent" should be renamed to "Pathetic" on the VO2MAX calculator.
Either that, or you all are cybergenetic terminators in disguise, able to blow away my sprint pace for over an hour straight! :

WHAT ..... THE..... HELL.......

So, what you are asking is...am I this?

or more this?


Tell us your Age, weight, height, best 2K and we'll tell you which one you are! Simple.

[Tim huges]

So im new to rowing, but have been digging through the data and am just stunned at what rowers can do.

Im also new to rowing, 5 months ago...all i can say is its very humbling to see what others can do. But like anything in life its personal, so dont feel too intimidated.

My first 2k was 7:16, worked my backside off and tried to perfect my form etc and last month got 6:41. I couldnt stop grinning for atleast the rest of the day, felt the bees knees...joined this page last week and like i say, "humbling" !

[jost]

52
158lb
5'9
8:13 2000M

[jost]

I said im "new" metaphorically. Ive never tried to make real gains rowing. But ive rowed for years. Just not like you guys.
My form is quite good. So im not going to improve my times based on form improvement.

But this is the first time im actually trying to gain cardio/endurance.

Ive only used rowers for HITT so far.

[Tim huges]

I said im "new" metaphorically. Ive never tried to make real gains rowing. But ive rowed for years. Just not like you guys.
My form is quite good. So im not going to improve my times based on form improvement.

But this is the first time im actually trying to gain cardio/endurance.

Ive only used rowers for HITT so far.

HIIT was my introduction to rowing too, 500m intervals after my other cardio...was all i did for months till someone at my gym gave me a routine to follow and 2 months later got my PB. Then i went the other end of the spectrum and only rowing 15k a day steady state sessions for a calorie burn...not really chasing any PB's. But i have recently got the urge to have a stab at the 2k again.

Im not experienced enough to give much advice, other than saying its great reading posts on here, asking questions and watching youtube videos but if you want to get serious the pete plan is maybe a good start.

[Dangerscouse]

I said im "new" metaphorically. Ive never tried to make real gains rowing. But ive rowed for years. Just not like you guys.
My form is quite good. So im not going to improve my times based on form improvement.

But this is the first time im actually trying to gain cardio/endurance.

Ive only used rowers for HITT so far.

Start adding in long steady state sessions at 2k +20 secs and see how you progress from there. Base fitness takes a long time to build up if you have only done HIIT sessions.

There's also the fact of height and weight counting against you. There's no avoiding the fact that they both really help in rowing.

Finally always remember this little nugget: progress happens too slowly for you to notice and setbacks happen too quickly for you to ignore. Don't dwell on either and look for the smallest of victories from every session.

[jost]

If I hold my heart rate at 70% of max (using heart rate monitor) for long and slow rows, im only putting out about 90 watts when fresh.
I must have a heart the size of a peanut

[johnlvs2run]

If I hold my heart rate at 70% of max (using heart rate monitor) for long and slow rows, im only putting out about 90 watts when fresh.

Figure your watts per weight to have an accurate estimation, and also when comparing to other performances.

[max_ratcliffe]

So im new to rowing, but have been digging through the data and am just stunned at what rowers can do.

I put my best 2000M sprint time into the concept2 VOX2max calculator and am right on the highest line labeled "Excellent".

So at first I was happy. Until I looked at the online log book averages for verified rows. (people my age and weight)

The average rows for 60 minute rows, are rowing at a pace significantly higher than my pace on my best 2000M sprint, that qualified me as having excellent VO2MAX. At 2000 meters my heart is about to explode, and im about to fall off the erg. Then trying to imagine someone going significantly faster for a full hour, wow.

What a joke. "Excellent" should be renamed to "Pathetic" on the VO2MAX calculator.
Either that, or you all are cybergenetic terminators in disguise, able to blow away my sprint pace for over an hour straight! :

WHAT ..... THE..... HELL.......

As well as being a very crude estimator, I assume that the online calculator is baselined versus the general population. OTOH, most people do not rank the distances they're not proud of, and - obviously - people don't rank their median pieces. They rank their PBs. You get some weird anomalies as well, due to the small population: not many people row an hour, but plenty have a crack at 10k. So the median pace for the hour (M HWT, 40-49) is way quicker than the median pace for 10k.

I've just started adding some more SkiErg work (including some sprints, which I'm not well suited to) and my percentiles are near the bottom. But someone has to be, and any score beats the hell out of time spent I could have spent in front of the TV.

I share your suspicions, though. Some of the posters here have muscles made of carbon nanotubes and have Kevlar hearts and graphene lungs.

The only real metric is yourself. If you're improving, then that's what counts. It can be a frustrating path sometimes - a workout you can do easily on Saturday can leave you gasping on the following Wednesday - but every time you clock up a PB, it's immensely satisfying (once the feeling of "I actually am going to die this time" has receded).

[jackarabit]

Nothing wrong with 2k+25” (2:28/500m in your case) paced long SS pace for starters. Work your way down to 2:23 of course but give it time.

[Dangerscouse]

As well as being a very crude estimator, I assume that the online calculator is baselined versus the general population. OTOH, most people do not rank the distances they're not proud of, and - obviously - people don't rank their median pieces. They rank their PBs. You get some weird anomalies as well, due to the small population: not many people row an hour, but plenty have a crack at 10k. So the median pace for the hour (M HWT, 40-49) is way quicker than the median pace for 10k.

I've just started adding some more SkiErg work (including some sprints, which I'm not well suited to) and my percentiles are near the bottom. But someone has to be, and any score beats the hell out of time spent I could have spent in front of the TV.

I share your suspicions, though. Some of the posters here have muscles made of carbon nanotubes and have Kevlar hearts and graphene lungs.

The only real metric is yourself. If you're improving, then that's what counts. It can be a frustrating path sometimes - a workout you can do easily on Saturday can leave you gasping on the following Wednesday - but every time you clock up a PB, it's immensely satisfying (once the feeling of "I actually am going to die this time" has receded).

Great post and perspective Max.

[Allan Olesen]

I put my best 2000M sprint time into the concept2 VOX2max calculator and am right on the highest line labeled "Excellent".

[...]

What a joke. "Excellent" should be renamed to "Pathetic" on the VO2MAX calculator.

There are two different questions buried here:

• Is the VO2Max estimation true?

• Is the table of typical VO2Max for the general population true?

Is the VO2Max estimation true?
The formula came from a science project where they actually did put people in a rowing ergometer and measured their actual VO2Max. So there is some truth to it. But there are also two problems.

The first problem is the distinction between "Highly trained" and "Not highly trained". How the **** should we know that? Why don't the model make this assessment for us? It has our 2k time, from where it can calculate our power output in watt, and it has our weight. Consequently, it can calculate our specific power output in watt/kg. That should tell the model if we are highly trained or not.

The second problem is that they have used a model with a linear relationship between time and VO2Max. Huh - wasn't this supposed to be a science project? Where is the science? Scientifically, one would expect VO2Max to have a linear dependency on power. The dependency between power and time is extremely nonlinear, since power is proportional to speed^3. So there cannot be a linear dependency between VO2Max and time. This was probably what forced them to make different curves depending on training level.

With that said, you and I have somewhat comparable stats in watt/kg for our 2k.

You:
2k PB = 8:13 = 187 watt
Weight = 158 lb = 72 kg
2k spec. power = 187/72 watt/kg = 2.60 watt/kg
C2 VO2Max calc. highly trained = 38.5
C2 VO2Max calc. not highly trained = 45.9

Me:
2k PB = 7:34.1 = 239 watt
Weight = 80 kg
2k spec. power = 239/80 watt/kg = 2.99 watt/kg
C2 VO2Max calc. highly trained = 54.3
C2 VO2Max calc. not highly trained = 48.6

It is peculiar that with almost identical watt/kg, the model react so differently to switching between highly trained and not highly trained. But anyway, both of us are probably in the category of not highly trained, and here the relationship between your and my watt/kg and VO2Max is more or less the same.

Around the time where I made this PB, I had my VO2 measured to 42 ml/kg/minute in a running test. This was not a VO2Max test, because I did not go to max. So my running VO2Max was probably slightly higher than those 42. Also, my max. heart rate in rowing is considerably higher than my max. heart rate in running. So it would seem possible that my rowing VO2Max is higher than my running VO2Max. Based on that, the VO2Max of 45.9 in my case does not seem far off.


Is the table of typical VO2Max for the general population true?
This is a standard table. You will see it everywhere, not only in rowing, but also in running and cycling.
I don't know the origin of the table. And it annoys me that it uses labels of Good, Excellent, etc. instead of showing percentiles.

Being in the same age group as you, I have a feeling that the table is far too nice against 50-59 year olds. As you can see, I am also in the Excellent group, and I feel far from excellent.