At what age did you notice recovery was impaired?

[Gammmmo]

Not sure whether it's a phase I'm going through i.e. "life" getting in the way of training or whether I'm actually training more effectively atm, but of late I'm finding some of my sessions are leaving me more fatigued than I remember in the past. I was discussing this a month back with a mate who is now 51 and does Ironman. He was saying sometime around 50 he felt a switch was flicked and he found he couldn't just smash himself all the time. FWIW until now I've not really been conscious of any difference between my 20s, 30s or 40s...in my case the different training regimes and sports have made comparisons difficult but of course in theory there should be some degradation.

[lindsayh]

Paul we are all different and train differently (of course) and obviously there is eventually a slow down but not the same as being unable to match intensity and I've not noticed that. FWIW it is my belief that it's important to maintain intensity as we age as age related slowing is partly explained by us backing off our training. Maintaining muscle mass is clearly critical for good general health outcomes. I really try to make the hard sessions HARD still approaching MHR and recovery seems similar. After 5x/week in the gym for 35 years the only way to keep consistent is body management and common sense I guess.

[bisqeet]

finding the sweet spot (supercompensation) is a tight line to walk in any training plan.
We aren't robots, our physiology changes.

You can quite easily step into training during a recovery phase - it can spiral quickly after that.

Best thing to do is:
rest, recover, return...

[Dangerscouse]

I'm finding that recently I'm struggling a bit more with recovery but I suspect it's 'life issues' like you alluded to. I really hope that is all it is as I'm not prepared for a downturn in performance / recovery just yet.

[Carl Watts]

Yes I would say 50. You can then start taking drugs to extend you performance, which is what I think many people who are really competitive by nature do but the slowdown has been quite marked since most of my best times were set at age 45.

You tread a fine line line between speed and recovery time. Push it just that bit harder and the recovery jumps from 24 hours meaning you can row 5 days straight to days in recovery. We are talking just a couple of hundred extra meters on a 30 minute row that takes you into the next HR band or two. You end up asking yourself is that extra couple of hundred meters really worth it ? from a health point of view your better off slowing down slightly and rowing twice or even three times the distance each week.

Its quite frustrating to start with but the sooner you come to grips with the reality of the situation the better

[DavidA]

Yes I would say 50. You can then start taking drugs to extend you performance, which is what I think many people who are really competitive by nature do but the slowdown has been quite marked since most of my best times were set at age 45.

You tread a fine line line between speed and recovery time. Push it just that bit harder and the recovery jumps from 24 hours meaning you can row 5 days straight to days in recovery. We are talking just a couple of hundred extra meters on a 30 minute row that takes you into the next HR band or two. You end up asking yourself is that extra couple of hundred meters really worth it ? from a health point of view your better off slowing down slightly and rowing twice or even three times the distance each week.

Its quite frustrating to start with but the sooner you come to grips with the reality of the situation the better

It sounds good, and makes sense, but I still have a big fight with myself to "come to grips with the reality of the situation".

David

[Gammmmo]

Its quite frustrating to start with but the sooner you come to grips with the reality of the situation the better

I sometimes say to people in competitive sport especially where a big part of their identity is wrapped up in being a certain standard, that you must always have the next thing (to get obsessive about!) in mind to move onto whether that be a different sport or something unrelated. I've long thought that when I'm happy with achieving X standard at the last sport I want to try (the beauty of a new one is although you may be past your best you don't know for certain what you can achieve and so the process starts again, which is often the most enjoyable part!) I will get much more into fell/mountain walking and mountain-biking again or do events that don't rely on X standard but are hard to complete and are inherently about the experience on the day(s).

[T_M]

49 for me. Not that I noticed the change suddenly...but when I think about how quickly I recovered from a hard session, 49 comes to mind when I think I needed more rest between sessions. That said, I still managed to hit lifting and rowing sprint PRs as late as last year.

[MPx]

For me its been clouded by how well trained I've been. I started erging in my 40s - keen and regular but without much knowledge. I then had a break and tried harder on my return and broke all my PBs except the 5k in my 50s. No recovery issues. Then had another break and have been back on it since Oct '16. I've found it impossible so far to get back to the level I was at in my 50's, but then I'm not really training any harder than I did then. If I did more and targeted specific PBs I suspect I'd better them even now...but I'm rally doing this for fitness and strength rather than chasing the numbers so the motivation isn't there to specialise. Just buying a new D instead of my old C allowed me to break my PBs for 1 min and 100m this year simply because I could get the DF higher than it would go on my C. I've not noticed any difference in recovery time yet and will be 62 this month...but since I'm mainly slower now, maybe that's why?

[Carl Watts]

For me its been clouded by how well trained I've been.

Very good point. The only issue I have found with staying really fit is that it delays all feelings of getting old. This sounds strange but because you have been feeling great for 50 years its all a bit of a shock when you hit that decline point that is suddenly noticeable and other factors like longer recovery start affecting your performance.

Mentally its really tough for some competitive people because they are always "trying to improve". When they suddenly hit the wall due to illness or accident that takes you out for a few months they never fully recover and quit rowing. Rather than just being happy to row slower, the mental barrier is a brick wall.

Lets no kid ourselves here, your "Performance Peak" was probably in your early 30's. The only reason your setting PB's in your 40's is either you were not even rowing in your 30's or you were way out of shape and nowhere near as fit as you could have been in your 30's.

Was trying to find a graph of sports performance vs age but I would imagine a peak at 30 and slow decline in a linear fashion until about 70-75 where it suddenly falls off a cliff. Fortunately the cliff is still a way off so if your complaining at 50, just imagine what its like hitting 75.

[jamesg]

What falls off is strength. I see this, not on the erg, where I can pull just as I like, but walking and on the bike.

Mountain tracks here are like staircases, the average slope about 30%. Roads rarely less steep than 10% but my bike's gears are the same as ever. My CV would let me go quite fast, but legs stop me; ski poles help in the hills.

On steep rough tracks, going downhill is a real pain.

Maybe losing some 10 kg would help.

[hjs]

Not sure whether it's a phase I'm going through i.e. "life" getting in the way of training or whether I'm actually training more effectively atm, but of late I'm finding some of my sessions are leaving me more fatigued than I remember in the past. I was discussing this a month back with a mate who is now 51 and does Ironman. He was saying sometime around 50 he felt a switch was flicked and he found he couldn't just smash himself all the time. FWIW until now I've not really been conscious of any difference between my 20s, 30s or 40s...in my case the different training regimes and sports have made comparisons difficult but of course in theory there should be some degradation.

Think recovery already at a very young age is at its best, think before 20.
Up untill, depending on sport, training prior genes, up until around 35 we can stay around absolute max. Performance wise, but from there it starts to fade. Everybody, no exceptions, nomatter what genes, diet, etc.

In erging lots of people come from other sports, at a later age, do getting personal bests come at ages far beyond absolute best. Erging is a bit like cycling, age friendly, a thing like running is much more demanding and after 40 most people can,t run anymore.

[lindsayh]

My understanding was that Paul was asking not about the way performance declines with age (which is a given) but whether the ability to recover from a hard session declines as well and if so when. Greg Smith and Sander have done all the work on ageing and performance.
https://analytics.rowsandall.com/2018/0 ... -duration/
My comment was that my ability to recover from a hard session seems to be holding up and that training intensity can be maintained

[KeithT]

Not sure whether it's a phase I'm going through i.e. "life" getting in the way of training or whether I'm actually training more effectively atm, but of late I'm finding some of my sessions are leaving me more fatigued than I remember in the past. I was discussing this a month back with a mate who is now 51 and does Ironman. He was saying sometime around 50 he felt a switch was flicked and he found he couldn't just smash himself all the time. FWIW until now I've not really been conscious of any difference between my 20s, 30s or 40s...in my case the different training regimes and sports have made comparisons difficult but of course in theory there should be some degradation.

For me, I noticed back when I was more into weightlifting a big change at age 40. I was still strong but just couldn't recover and was always sore. When I got into CrossFit in my late 40s (also when I found the ERG) I found on any given day I could keep up with or beat the young guys (especially on the ERG) but...they would be right back in the gym going hard the next day where I would need a recovery type day. For the ERG specifically I recover much better than from weights or CF but at 51 now there are many times where I am just zapped. So, short answer to your question is started at 40 for me and pretty much has been the same since.

[hjs]

My understanding was that Paul was asking not about the way performance declines with age (which is a given) but whether the ability to recover from a hard session declines as well and if so when. Greg Smith and Sander have done all the work on ageing and performance.
https://analytics.rowsandall.com/2018/0 ... -duration/
My comment was that my ability to recover from a hard session seems to be holding up and that training intensity can be maintained

If we look at sports we do see older athletes, talking about the absolute top, take more rest and have fever peaks. Recovery gets less. And thats far befor 40.

Also, absolute performance does matter. Look at top deadlifters, not seldom only one hard session per 2 weeks. Marathonrunners often race once, twice at max per year. They could jog one every week....