Increasing stroke rate / aerobic capacity

[RayOfSunshine]

Other than putting in more meters, are there specific workouts I can do to help increase SR / improve aerobic capacity? I'm realistic and don't expect results overnight. Or, perhaps my sr is fine... I've listed recent TT's with SR below. Mine just seem lower than most others I see.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

2k @ 31spm
6k @ 25spm
10k @ 24spm
10k @ 23spm (PB)
60 min @ 23spm
60 min @ 22spm (PB)
HM @ 22spm

Thanks in advance.

[max_ratcliffe]

Eric Murray does loads of rate work over on his youtube channel, although I haven't had a crack at any of it yet.

I think OTW rowers do this sort of stuff a lot (it being a tangible way of managing pace, without the constant feedback that we get on the erg).

One thing I'm always unsure about with rate work is how to pace it. Should we sometimes practice rate changes while keeping the same speed, or should we always try to get the same power into every stroke? I'm not sure it's quite possible - at least not for me - as my stroke definitely shortens as I try to increase the rate.

Any simple rules of thumb out there?

[jamesg]

First we learn to go fast at low ratings, which needs a good stroke.
Doing this gives endurance which is enough for most purposes.
Then if needed for racing, we learn to go faster still by increasing the rating, using the same stroke if not better.

[max_ratcliffe]

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Then if needed for racing, we learn to go faster still by increasing the rating, using the same stroke if not better.

So reading between the lines, I think you suggest work/stroke remains constant, i.e. a linear increase in work with stroke rate.

This would mean that, say a if we're rowing a 2.00 split (202W) at r20, we should look to increase pace to 1.56 (223W=202*22/20) when rating up to 22s/m.

Would all happen naturally, I suppose, without getting too scientific, but a target split is always useful to help prevent the stroke degenerating as we rate up.

[hjs]

Other than putting in more meters, are there specific workouts I can do to help increase SR / improve aerobic capacity? I'm realistic and don't expect results overnight. Or, perhaps my sr is fine... I've listed recent TT's with SR below. Mine just seem lower than most others I see.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

2k @ 31spm
6k @ 25spm
10k @ 24spm
10k @ 23spm (PB)
60 min @ 23spm
60 min @ 22spm (PB)
HM @ 22spm

Thanks in advance.

2k is ok, de rest is indeed to low. Learn to power down, do sessions where you lower the power per stroke and rate up, if possible even strapless.
Its partly your preferred stroke, you will never become a high rater, but with practise you can get it higher.

[Dangerscouse]

I have mixed thoughts on this. All of my PBs from FM downwards have all been done at a minimum of r28 as it just feels more natural for me.

A higher stroke rate should give you results but you should only row at a rate that is most efficient for you.

I think doing some intervals will help with stroke e.g. 10 x 1k with 2 mins rest. By then second half your pace may need to slow to maintain the pace, which is fine, but you will get more comfortable with the higher rates and over time your pace will increase too. It will need one step back to take two forwards.

Eric Murray's workouts are excellent but I think they may be too short a distance for the higher rates to be as beneficial as a 10 x 1k, not least as you have rated at 31 for a 2k so you're not a total stranger to high rating.

Be aware of your breathing sequence with the higher rates. It's different from r22 or lower and will take a bit of adapting.

[KeithT]

I have no problem rating high when doing a 500m (44), 1K (38) or even 2K (30-32) but once I get to 5K my rate goes to 26 and then 30 minutes and up I am 20-23. Always seems easier to do slower rate to me when going longer distance.

[jamesg]

Other than putting in more meters, are there specific workouts I can do to help increase SR / improve aerobic capacity? I'm realistic and don't expect results overnight. Or, perhaps my sr is fine... I've listed recent TT's with SR below. Mine just seem lower than most others I see.

You could try the Wolverine L4 work, after a 2k test. Paces may seem slack, in which case improve your stroke.

[Allan Olesen]

Would all happen naturally, I suppose, without getting too scientific, but a target split is always useful to help prevent the stroke degenerating as we rate up.

It is usually intended the other way around: To ensure that the energy in your stroke doesn't get reduced too much when you row at low intensity.

When you train at deliberate low intensity, I think it is quite natural for most people to only reduce stroke rate a little, but reduce the energy per stroke a lot. The advice about maintaining stroke energy is a way to ensure that this doesn't happen.

[RayOfSunshine]

Thanks everyone.

I think doing some intervals will help with stroke e.g. 10 x 1k with 2 mins rest. By then second half your pace may need to slow to maintain the pace, which is fine, but you will get more comfortable with the higher rates and over time your pace will increase too. It will need one step back to take two forwards.
Be aware of your breathing sequence with the higher rates. It's different from r22 or lower and will take a bit of adapting.

I'll try the 10x1k. I hadn't thought of the breathing sequence, but I guess it'll take some getting used to.
I may need to bump my DF up a bit too. My rows over 2k have been 102-108 DF.

2k is ok, de rest is indeed to low. Learn to power down, do sessions where you lower the power per stroke and rate up, if possible even strapless.
Its partly your preferred stroke, you will never become a high rater, but with practise you can get it higher.

I think it's been driven into me on these message boards to build a stronger stroke (30r20 pieces, etc.), so I will need to consciously/forcefully power down.

I have no problem rating high when doing a 500m (44), 1K (38) or even 2K (30-32) but once I get to 5K my rate goes to 26 and then 30 minutes and up I am 20-23. Always seems easier to do slower rate to me when going longer distance.

Keith, do you have fast twitch muscle fibers? I do and it looks like your pacing is similar to mine. I tend to use low DFs too which was counter intuitive since I have stronger than average legs. However, maybe I need to work on a higher DF too.

[hjs]

Ray, having a strong stroke is ofcourse a goal to strive for, but we have to be able to use that stroke. In the end its seldom strenght that is the limiting factor. Aerobic fitness is.

You do train both parts of the stroke, and do lower rate sessions and sessions where you try to rate up.

[David Pomerantz]

Ray, having a strong stroke is ofcourse a goal to strive for, but we have to be able to use that stroke. In the end its seldom strenght that is the limiting factor. Aerobic fitness is.

You do train both parts of the stroke, and do lower rate sessions and sessions where you try to rate up.

I’m 56 and used to be a pretty strong runner. I’ve used the erg on and off for 30 years. Haven’t really run for 10 years now and have been exclusively indoor rowing daily for last 2-3 years. My times are disappointing and way off what I was doing even 6 years ago. Rating up is definitely problematic for me. Would I potentially benefit from substituting some running for erg time? Thanks,

Dave

[hjs]

Ray, having a strong stroke is ofcourse a goal to strive for, but we have to be able to use that stroke. In the end its seldom strenght that is the limiting factor. Aerobic fitness is.

You do train both parts of the stroke, and do lower rate sessions and sessions where you try to rate up.

I’m 56 and used to be a pretty strong runner. I’ve used the erg on and off for 30 years. Haven’t really run for 10 years now and have been exclusively indoor rowing daily for last 2-3 years. My times are disappointing and way off what I was doing even 6 years ago. Rating up is definitely problematic for me. Would I potentially benefit from substituting some running for erg time? Thanks,

Dave

Difficult to say with not more info. Do think, you should get back to running, if that was a strongpoint Its a pitty you don,t do that anymore.
Not many ergers run, but I have seen a few do and that did not make them worse.

And if rating is a weakpoint, clearly find ways to work on it.

Re overall level, age must play a role also, not that you should “accept” that, but in a way we should. I also feel the difference being 52/53 now.

[Dangerscouse]

Ray, having a strong stroke is ofcourse a goal to strive for, but we have to be able to use that stroke. In the end its seldom strenght that is the limiting factor. Aerobic fitness is.

You do train both parts of the stroke, and do lower rate sessions and sessions where you try to rate up.

I’m 56 and used to be a pretty strong runner. I’ve used the erg on and off for 30 years. Haven’t really run for 10 years now and have been exclusively indoor rowing daily for last 2-3 years. My times are disappointing and way off what I was doing even 6 years ago. Rating up is definitely problematic for me. Would I potentially benefit from substituting some running for erg time? Thanks,

Dave

Could it be an issue that you're doing too much, or possibly too many junk metres?

Are you feeling rested enough when you row? I row a maximum of four, sometimes three, times a weeks but I try to make sure that I do a variety of fast, slow, long and short. Sometimes less is more as quality over quantity is usually a winning choice.

When i was at my fittest I did a spin class once a week which I think really helped as it set new perceived limits that transferred over to rowing.

When you get too stuck in a rut you need to take a step back to take two steps forward: running might be that answer for you, and it's definitely worth a try.

[David Pomerantz]

For the last 18 months I’ve been using RowPro training programs. I’m currently doing the 2K program because the easy days use a slightly higher rating of 24-28. Over the last 18 months I’ve done 5K/6K program a few times, 30 minute program couple times, and the 10K program at least once. Each program has been 2-3 months in length. I don’t know about “junk meters”. I read a lot about the 80/20 rule and RowPro seems to approximately follow that. Until I started RowPro, almost all my rowing was just beating myself up for 20-40 minute continuous sessions, and it seemed to work ok. Was really interested to see what happened when I put on a heart rate monitor and followed the RowPro guidelines.

I tweaked my input data so RowPro would give me the heart rate ranges I think are appropriate based on the Free Spirits web site. My RHR is about 48 and my MHR is about 190 I think. So my easy rows are at 120-150 and most of the work that I equate to UT1 is about 160. Overall maybe I am high on quantity and short on quality. Since starting the 2K program, which has shorter workouts than I had been doing, I’ve been surprised that I have been sort of chronically sore. I very naturally rate 18-22, and these easy rows have me rating 24-26. Is that more exercise than I think? Thanks,

Dave