MHR question

[jamesg]

At 78 kg, all you have to do is row at about 150 Watts and low rating, 18-23.
If this is too high, so that you can't continue indefinitely, go a bit slower.

[Anth_F]

Maximum HR is very useful to know, but very painful to find out. Basically a 5Km will get you there and its the point your just about to be forced to handle down, its really not a nice feeling and feels a bit like drowning.

Once you have the Max HR you need your resting HR, plug the two numbers into the Free Spirits training bands calculator and that way you stay in your zone for all your training rows using the average HR recorded on the monitor as a comparison.

Yeah it all sounds very ugly.

I already have my resting HR' which i've monitored on the PM5 as being 53-56bpm.

Thanks for the info on the Free Spirits bands calculator Carl.

[Anth_F]

At 78 kg, all you have to do is row at about 150 Watts and low rating, 18-23.
If this is too high, so that you can't continue indefinitely, go a bit slower.

Haha i've been rowing most stuff over 200w lately r22-r23... rowing 150w will feel like some comedown i reckon.

I think for now i'll concentrate on HR, do some steadier stuff where i keep the HR under 150 or maybe just creep into the low 150's to end.

[Gammmmo]

At 78 kg, all you have to do is row at about 150 Watts and low rating, 18-23.
If this is too high, so that you can't continue indefinitely, go a bit slower.

Haha i've been rowing most stuff over 200w lately r22-r23... rowing 150w will feel like some comedown i reckon.

I think for now i'll concentrate on HR, do some steadier stuff where i keep the HR under 150 or maybe just creep into the low 150's to end.

Did you test for your maxHR? Only one way really as it varies alot even among folk of the same age due to things like heart size. You might have to go to the hurt locker Anth

If you want to keep your weights gains and erg, why don't you just do HIT cardio? This is what I'm doing with 30mins steady as the longest session I do now. I try to get in 2-3 HIT sessions a week. My total weekly erg volume has gone from 60K to 30K a week....net result: gaining size and probably about a 20-25s hit on my 5K TT time which I reckon I could get back in the main if I wanted by knocking the weights back to once a week and doing a cardio block with 60K+ a week on the erg for say 6 weeks.

[Anth_F]

Did you test for your maxHR? Only one way really as it varies alot even among folk of the same age due to things like heart size. You might have to go to the hurt locker Anth

If you want to keep your weights gains and erg, why don't you just do HIT cardio? This is what I'm doing with 30mins steady as the longest session I do now. I try to get in 2-3 HIT sessions a week. My total weekly erg volume has gone from 60K to 30K a week....net result: gaining size and probably about a 20-25s hit on my 5K TT time which I reckon I could get back in the main if I wanted by knocking the weights back to once a week and doing a cardio block with 60K+ a week on the erg for say 6 weeks.

Hi Paul,

Tbh, i'm not sure what the hell i want with regards to erging The longest rows i do now are a fairly
intense 6k, or a harder 5k. With some 2k's thrown into the mix on some days. I have just started doing a bit HIT with 500s, and thought this should be the right way to go with combining the erg and weights training. Though i do erg on a different day to the weights the majority of my time. I certainly don't want to lose muscle gains from the weights, it's so bloody hard to build mass, even with supplements and a quite high protein diet

I was even thinking are those fairly intense 6k's hindering my muscle mass development... i'm not sure

My weekly volume of meters is way down on yours... i'm only at 64500 for the season thus far

[Andrew Shuck]

I suppose i should really do a test then, to make sure i get my numbers into perspective.

I hear my erg calling meeee... get on me and get some flat out meters done... NOWWW

A “workable” method is doing a pretty hard session and end it with a sprint. This will give you a starting number, over time when you do other hard sessions you will see likely a bit higher number, but for starters this is close enough. It will never be miles off. And no need to do it right away.

@ Ant, my last 10k HR peaked at 204, the last 2k i really pushed my self.These are my readings for each 2k interval...175,181,189,194,200bpm.
Hope this adds to what what Henry was saying. Cheeeers.

[Gammmmo]

Anth - with regard to hard 6K sessions, I doubt it's hindering you if you do them fairly infrequently (I am inferring this as your total erg volume is low).
Right idea with the 500s....maybe do 8x250m(rest=1min) and even 10x100m(rest=45s) if you think injury is no issue. I used to do alot of 12.5K sessions around 2:00/500m but avoid those now as it's sending the wrong signal.

[nick rockliff]

Back in 2005 I trained strictly to HR zones set by blood lactate profile testing which included VO2max and MHR. My MHR was 173 yet my UT2 zone was 154 to 160. A typical UT2 session for me at that time was 16k r20 at 1.52 pace sometimes twice a day and 11 sessions a week.

[Anth_F]

Anth - with regard to hard 6K sessions, I doubt it's hindering you if you do them fairly infrequently (I am inferring this as your total erg volume is low).
Right idea with the 500s....maybe do 8x250m(rest=1min) and even 10x100m(rest=45s) if you think injury is no issue. I used to do alot of 12.5K sessions around 2:00/500m but avoid those now as it's sending the wrong signal.

Yeah, i'm doing them 6k's fairly infrequently tbh, so i'll take your word that they aren't doing me any harm

Cheers for the HIT sesh ideas mate!!! 8x250 on 1r sounds appealing to me! Until i get into the thick of them anyway I'll probably stay away from the 100m stuff... last time i done them hard sprinting, i end up pulling something in my rib area, and it took several weeks to heal before i could even erg again PAINFUL aswell.

Totally get you on the long stuff... i don't want wrong signals, hence those 40-45min rows are a thing of the past for me. My erg fitness in general doesn't appear to be suffering as a result either, even though my weekly meters volume is quite low compared to most around these parts.

Back in 2005 I trained strictly to HR zones set by blood lactate profile testing which included VO2max and MHR. My MHR was 173 yet my UT2 zone was 154 to 160. A typical UT2 session for me at that time was 16k r20 at 1.52 pace sometimes twice a day and 11 sessions a week.

Thanks for chiming in with that info Nick. I will eventually get around to doing a MHR test, it needs to be done so i know exactly where i stand.

Those UT2 session numbers of yours are quite something tbh. Real strong stuff!!!!

[NavigationHazard]

There's no need for you to do a maximum hr test. Max will be whatever you can push it to on the day, and will vary somewhat depending on the details of the test you're using, your hydration levels, ambient conditions in the test area, sleep levels, what you had to eat at your last meal, your willpower as you push to failure, etc. etc. What really matters for training purposes is the hr associated with your lactate threshold/ ability to sustain a workload without overtaxing your ability to process the lactate your muscles are putting into your circulatory system. Basically, when you're base-building you want to stay well below that. When you're doing other training, e.g. sharpening for some competition or test, you start to work at your threshold or above it. And you adjust the workload accordingly, since it's impossible physiologically to put in the same mileage at/above threshold that you can do below threshold.

[Anth_F]

There's no need for you to do a maximum hr test. Max will be whatever you can push it to on the day, and will vary somewhat depending on the details of the test you're using, your hydration levels, ambient conditions in the test area, sleep levels, what you had to eat at your last meal, your willpower as you push to failure, etc. etc. What really matters for training purposes is the hr associated with your lactate threshold/ ability to sustain a workload without overtaxing your ability to process the lactate your muscles are putting into your circulatory system. Basically, when you're base-building you want to stay well below that. When you're doing other training, e.g. sharpening for some competition or test, you start to work at your threshold or above it. And you adjust the workload accordingly, since it's impossible physiologically to put in the same mileage at/above threshold that you can do below threshold.

So how would i go about knowing what my HR % is for lactate threshold without knowing what my MHR is

[hjs]

There's no need for you to do a maximum hr test. Max will be whatever you can push it to on the day, and will vary somewhat depending on the details of the test you're using, your hydration levels, ambient conditions in the test area, sleep levels, what you had to eat at your last meal, your willpower as you push to failure, etc. etc. What really matters for training purposes is the hr associated with your lactate threshold/ ability to sustain a workload without overtaxing your ability to process the lactate your muscles are putting into your circulatory system. Basically, when you're base-building you want to stay well below that. When you're doing other training, e.g. sharpening for some competition or test, you start to work at your threshold or above it. And you adjust the workload accordingly, since it's impossible physiologically to put in the same mileage at/above threshold that you can do below threshold.

So how would i go about knowing what my HR % is for lactate threshold without knowing what my MHR is

For a guy like you, Max hf is just fun. It serves no real purpuse.

Watching your breathing can help, when this changes from calm to a bit laboured, you are starting to build a bit of lactate. This is roughly your ut2 upper limit.
Breathing laboured, but still under control, you could hold it 10k or more, this would be ut1.
Breathing hard, don,t hold it for beyond 20 min, At.

Look at the hf numbers going with those.

A guy like Nick was very aerobic, an average erging will not such high ut2 %, but the point of aerobic training is to get better at using oxigion, the better the more is needed, the harder our heart needs to work, the more it needs to pump.

Without testing bloodlactatelevels we don,t know the numbers exactly. But if you are in touch with your body, you should have an idea.

[Anth_F]

For a guy like you, Max hf is just fun. It serves no real purpuse.

Watching your breathing can help, when this changes from calm to a bit laboured, you are starting to build a bit of lactate. This is roughly your ut2 upper limit.
Breathing laboured, but still under control, you could hold it 10k or more, this would be ut1.
Breathing hard, don,t hold it for beyond 20 min, At.

Look at the hf numbers going with those.

Perfect, Thanks a lot Henry.

I'll monitor my HR numbers on my next 6k... this session has some intensity, and i would say my breathing is a bit laboured on it, moreso in the final K.

[Allan Olesen]

So how would i go about knowing what my HR % is for lactate threshold without knowing what my MHR is

Trying to guess your LT from HRMax would probably be the least accurate way to do it.

You have different options for finding your LT:

• A lab test, where your lactate levels in your blood and/or your RER ratio is measured.

• A 30 minutes all-out effort at constant pace where you take the average HR of the last 20 minutes (the Joe Friel method).

• A CP (Critical Power) test after the Monod method.

• If you know your breath - by observing when your breathing reaches VT-2 (Ventilatory Threshold 2).

Of the three last options, the CP test is probably the most accurate way of doing it. It will not give you your heart rate at LT, but instead your ergometer power at LT. The method is:

• Do an all-out effort of 3-4 minutes at constant power. Record the duration in seconds (T1) and average power (P1).

• Rest adequately, so you can do another all-out effort.

• Do an all-out effort of 10-15 minutes at constant power. Record the duration in seconds (T2) and average power (P2).

The exact duration of each test is not important. What is important is that you continue to exhaustion at constant power. So each test ends when you are absolutely unable to continue at the same power.

Now you can calculate CP:
CP = (T2*P2 - T1*P1) / (T2-T1)

If you already have two PB's in these two time ranges, done at constant power or pace (no sprint near the end), and done not too many weeks apart (so your fitness hasn't changed in between), you can just plug those into the equation. This will get your very near.

[Anth_F]

So how would i go about knowing what my HR % is for lactate threshold without knowing what my MHR is

Trying to guess your LT from HRMax would probably be the least accurate way to do it.

You have different options for finding your LT:

• A lab test, where your lactate levels in your blood and/or your RER ratio is measured.

• A 30 minutes all-out effort at constant pace where you take the average HR of the last 20 minutes (the Joe Friel method).

• A CP (Critical Power) test after the Monod method.

• If you know your breath - by observing when your breathing reaches VT-2 (Ventilatory Threshold 2).

Of the three last options, the CP test is probably the most accurate way of doing it. It will not give you your heart rate at LT, but instead your ergometer power at LT. The method is:

• Do an all-out effort of 3-4 minutes at constant power. Record the duration in seconds (T1) and average power (P1).

• Rest adequately, so you can do another all-out effort.

• Do an all-out effort of 10-15 minutes at constant power. Record the duration in seconds (T2) and average power (P2).

The exact duration of each test is not important. What is important is that you continue to exhaustion at constant power. So each test ends when you are absolutely unable to continue at the same power.

Now you can calculate CP:
CP = (T2*P2 - T1*P1) / (T2-T1)

If you already have two PB's in these two time ranges, done at constant power or pace (no sprint near the end), and done not too many weeks apart (so your fitness hasn't changed in between), you can just plug those into the equation. This will get your very near.

Thankyou very much for all of this insightful and useful information, Allan. It is really appreciated, and there is certainly a lot here for me to digest.