new-ish rower question about spm

[jcjenn]

Nerd question- is it watts/spm which would be essentially joules/stroke or is it actually watts /stroke ?

You are completely right about the concept: The result of the division will be energy per stroke. Not power per stroke.

However, the actual units of the result will be WattMinutes/Stroke, not Joule/Stroke.

1 WattMinute = 60 WattSeconds = 60 Joule.

So if you want Joule/Stroke, you will have to multiply the division result by 60.

Ah so cool that you understood what I was getting at. Anyway it doesn't matter I was just curious. Thanks:) Now just have to get the wattage up.

[jcjenn]

Is there a way to know how long a stroke length to aim for? I am 5'10. I do actually think my stroke was too short before- only because i wasn't letting my shoulders sort of relax all the way forward at the catch -does that make sense? I saw a couple videos that talked about position at the catch (sorry i sound like an annoying new person) and i clearly was not doing what he demonstrated with my shoulders. I think yesterday I was allowing the seat to get too close to my feet though.

I'd say i'm just a pile of weaknesses, but yes fitness ranks up there. Although, i'm doing okay for an old-ish lady.

Nothing wrong with asking is there?

Re stroke lenght, you use an app, ergData which does Measure your strokelenght. Its not just height, shoulderwith, armlenght, torsoheight also matter. And for sprinting, strokes are shorter. Etc etc

Roughly speaking, I would say 125/30 cm would be about right.

And, you doing crossfit, rowing is just a part of that, it will be tough to get a very good technique. Try to just make it work for you. Build a solid, relax stroke. Even if that is not texbook.

One that I remember from last weekend was only like 101 cm. I'll check it again and see what it is now after I've tried to improve a little. Rowing in crossfit is without an actual rowing coach / expert, but they have the basics. Its just maybe too much too soon, know what I mean?

It was 112 today (20 min sort of medium effort)

[hjs]

Have a look at your movement. Get a short clip from the side. From around 5 meters, at trunk Height.

Look at the arms and upperbody. Upperbody should go from 13.00 oclock to 11.00. Rocking over and back.
Arms should start fully extended with relax shoulders. Handle should end at the sternum, high abs.
Shins, should be vertical at the start of the stroke, legs should be vertical or close, at the end of the Stroke.

If you got those points, you would get around your optimal stroke and lenght.

[jackarabit]

1. Look at the rowing stroke as demonstrated in Concept 2 videos. Very easy to find @ C2 homepage. Develop self critique based on what you (think) you see and what you (think) you are doing if different.

2. Use a cell or video cam to record your rowing stroke from the side (90° to the seat rail, field of view to include hands, feet, head and all of the rower that will fit in the shot). Include 20-30 strokes of what you do for your typical cf thrash and 2’ of what you think you should be doing differently. Link here as utube vid. Hjs, JamesG and several others on the forum have considerable experience diagnosing weaknesses in the stroke and recommending corrective action.

[jcjenn]

Ok thanks! That's nice of you guys. I'll try to get something either tomorrow morning if I'm not feeling too stiff, or next weekend. Although there is a guy at cf who is camera happy so maybe I can get him to help during the week. 'Cf thrash' so true.

[jackarabit]

No hurry. Latchkey always out. And the advice is often worth more than we pay for it.

[jamesg]

I'm not sure i can even imagine how a person would need to lift their hands over their knees during the recovery? bending legs before arms are fully extended?

You'd be surprised. It's the most common erg fault, but from your 600m time/rating and what you say it's not a fault that you suffer from; on the contrary, you're doing very well. Same for foot height.

[jcjenn]

I'm not sure i can even imagine how a person would need to lift their hands over their knees during the recovery? bending legs before arms are fully extended?

You'd be surprised. It's the most common erg fault, but from your 600m time/rating and what you say it's not a fault that you suffer from; on the contrary, you're doing very well. Same for foot height.

Thanks- I was thinking those 3:00 660m weren't very good. Or maybe you werent looking at my concept2 log. The best 500 I remember doing was 1:56. Not entirely sure I could do that now. Lol.

[jamesg]

I did ok, and was able to keep a 2 min split for awhile like that.

You wrote the above of a 600m piece, in this thread. This is about 200 Watt, so not bad at all at 27 or lower, especially since you noted that it was within a lot of other work. It would mean that your stroke is good (about 7.5 W-min), and good strokes don't come from bad technique.

A 500 at 1:56 is 230 Watt and confirms that impression.

Watts/Rating is the external work you do (= length x force) in each stroke. Using that stroke at low ratings (standard practice in rowing) will give you plenty of endurance and consolidate the quality of your stroke. Which is essential for the short and medium distances too.

E.g. rate 20 x 7.5 = 150 Watt, ok say 140 and have fun. This will be about 2W/kg for you and no doubt highly stressful.

[KenS]

FWIW, watching this video helped me drop my rating (SPM) while doing longer pieces and improved my power per stroke. It did take months of practice to go from what had been my usual 26 to 30 SPM to 20 to 22 SPM now, but I'm glad I put in the effort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mql ... x=2&t=263s

[KenS]

Oh, and FWIW, I'm 6' (183cm) tall, and according to ergdata my stroke length is usually 127 to 133 cm. I think my technique is relatively okay, so perhaps that helps give you some perspective on drive length.

[jcjenn]

FWIW, watching this video helped me drop my rating (SPM) while doing longer pieces and improved my power per stroke. It did take months of practice to go from what had been my usual 26 to 30 SPM to 20 to 22 SPM now, but I'm glad I put in the effort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiQ0Mql ... x=2&t=263s

Thanks for pointing out that you practiced for months, because I feel like I'm just getting worse the more I try to improve! But I guess that's to be expected a little. I'll watch the video, thank you.

[jcjenn]

I did ok, and was able to keep a 2 min split for awhile like that.

You wrote the above of a 600m piece, in this thread. This is about 200 Watt, so not bad at all at 27 or lower, especially since you noted that it was within a lot of other work. It would mean that your stroke is good (about 7.5 W-min), and good strokes don't come from bad technique.

A 500 at 1:56 is 230 Watt and confirms that impression.

Watts/Rating is the external work you do (= length x force) in each stroke. Using that stroke at low ratings (standard practice in rowing) will give you plenty of endurance and consolidate the quality of your stroke. Which is essential for the short and medium distances too.

E.g. rate 20 x 7.5 = 150 Watt, ok say 140 and have fun. This will be about 2W/kg for you and no doubt highly stressful.

Thank you very much for all of your help- I appreciate you taking the time out to teach a few things. That is exactly what I'd like to be able to do, use the same work stroke at lower ratings so I can build up some endurance. So keep practicing.

Today was a bad workout day (a bonk day) as my brother always calls them. 4:14 1000m. My brain wasnt going after it at all and I wanted to get up and run away after the first 250. I tried to sort of pace it which I think was a bad idea because I had a bunch left at the end. Bonk!

[jamesg]

If the 1k was a test or a race, that doesn't look bad; to pace it is normal, then we can wind it up in the last quarter if we warmed up beforehand. The alternative is called fly and die and happens to us all, possibly once only. Give it its name: experience.

Endurance depends mostly on style and mile. A few hundred 5ks will sort that out.

[Dangerscouse]

It wasn't a bad day as you didn't give up and HD.

Some days are always going to be harder than others and the days when you aren't ready or willing are the sessions that really shape you; it's not too hard to do it on a good day with loads of energy and enthusiasm.

That is still a decent time for a 1k for a new-ish female rower, and it's a great target for next time when you are feeling ready