Confused about training strategies

[scottsaz1]

Hello all! Apologies for the long post - new here but have lurked for a while.

Newb(ish) rower, male, 47, 6'4" (193cm) 207lbs (93.8kg). Was a competitive rower in high school and 1st year of college, but have not been on the water (or on the erg) in almost 30 years.

Starting back up on the C2 for a few reasons:

1. To get more fit - I've been lifting off and on for the past 10 years or so (mostly off), but have been on a consistent program now for a year and a half. Only cardio I've done is multi-day hikes (25+ miles) once in a blue moon. I'm getting leaner, but stuck at about 23% BF +/- 3% (jiggly belly). I'd love to improve my overall cardio fitness level and endurance.

2. Would like to get faster and more efficient on the erg, while being able to row longer (45+ min) with intensity. Plus I'd love to work on my 2K times - my PB 6:48 was when I was 17. Have not done a test yet, but I'm thinking I'm probably 9:00+ - fitness level sucks

3. Will be moving to a city that has an OTW rowing club and have been itching to get back on the water. I'm not in rowing shape by any means and don't want to embarrass myself. No set date for this, but hoping sometime this year.

Ok, that out of the way, hoping to get some training help from y'all. Just started the Beginner Pete Plan (actually repeated week 1) but am super confused about pacing, heart rate, watts, perceived effort, etc. I did the first 5000m at a very easy 2:30 pace, r19, heart rate steady at an avg 129. Felt way way easy. The first interval workout, 6x500, I completed at an avg 1:56 pace, r24, 166 avg hr, but hr reached 180 on the last interval. Was spent afterwards.

I'm not sure how to pace my workouts - or in fact what measurement I should be using - to get the most benefit. I'll still be lifting moderately 2-3x per week (full body workout focusing on compound lifts) if that makes a difference.

Ideas? UT2? Long SS for a few months? Stick with the BPP?

Thanks much - looking forward to getting to know y'all.

Scott

[Dangerscouse]

Welcome to the forum Scott.

I don't know much about the BPP but in principle you want the long steady state sessions to be quite easy circa 65% of max HR.

For the intervals, you should be spent at the end of it otherwise you haven't pushed hard enough. The best way to know your limits is to keep pushing them, note them down and work towards bettering them.

As Pete Reed said "if your low stuff is too high the high stuff will be too low too", so don't get fooled into pushing too much on the steady state sessions.

Stay patient as getting 'erg fit' takes time and lots of metres, pain and sweat. Best of luck with it all

[RayOfSunshine]

I did the BPP last year and suggest the following

1) be active on the Pete Plan thread (great motivation and advice)
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=165414&start=1800

2) As Stu suggests, use a HR monitor and cap the SS sessions. I did NOT do this and paid for it via injury and lack of progress.
"The three key points you want to concentrate on during all of your erg sessions are technique, relaxation, and efficiency. Use the single distance pieces to work on the different elements of the stroke you read about in the technique section. Aim for a feeling of smooth acceleration through the drive, and to be slow and relaxed during the recovery."

3) Push yourself on the intervals. For the 1st 10-15 weeks, I would do them a little faster than suggested because I was making newbie gains (a lot of gains quickly)

[Concept3]

I‘m no expert by any means and pull poor splits myself but i‘d suggest you don‘t care about HR for „steadystate“ early in the game. Build a proper stroke at low rates which you can rely on even if it gives you out of the „zone“ readings. That 2:30 for 5k must have been very restricted techniquewise given your stats. For very low end cardio a roadbike or bikeerg or whatever suits better, and you can do it for hours.

[hjs]

Follow that plan, focus on using a good stroke, when unfit, the kind od training does not matter to much, anything will help, go a bit by feel, don,t race your sessions, but on the other hand if you don,t break a sweat....

After a few month you have a better idea, from there you can look for a more specific plan. Now go for technique and slowly making more meters.

[scottsaz1]

Thanks for the insight all.

@Concept3 - the 2:30 certainly felt un-natural. I was really trying to stay under 130 bpm, was very much a weird feeling, felt like not much work at all.

@hjs - good advice, perhpas I am overthinking too much at this stage....

@ray - great stuff, thanks. My only hesitation is going all out on the intervals once a week feels counter intuitive to training. Perhaps I'll work on adding :10 to those and see how it feels.

@danger - awesome, will try the 65%, and attempt to stay patient


Scott

[Dangerscouse]

Overthinking early on is very common. The most important thing to do in the very early days is to enjoy yourself and get your technique nailed.

I think under 130 is too low unless you know this is the correct target?

[Allan Olesen]

I think under 130 is too low unless you know this is the correct target?

Sounds like a very probable target to me.

I have had my aerobic threshold measured in a lab. It was 134 BPM. This was a running test (still waiting for my rowing test).

There are a lot of opinions on this issue, but one quite widespread opinion is that training some beats below aerobic threshold will still add to the development of the aerobic base, albeit slower, while training some beats above could hinder the development of the aerobic base.

[jamesg]

2. Would like to get faster and more efficient on the erg, while being able to row longer (45+ min) with intensity. Plus I'd love to work on my 2K times - my PB 6:48 was when I was 17. Have not done a test yet, but I'm thinking I'm probably 9:00+ - fitness level sucks

When 62 I did about a year of 5x5k a week, was then invited to race so did the last few weeks of a 26 week Interactive schedule. I got to about 7:10 for 2k with no difficulty, done at 28 and with a 10 Watt stroke (10 x 28 = 280 Watts, which is about 1:47 pace).

https://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/interactive

I'd done a lot of rowing from age 15 to 21, then none at all.

You certainly already have the technique and boat speed needed to get well below 7 minutes; the problem is endurance. Don't waste too much time on short fast intervals, except as a reduction of overall work load before racing. If you have good style, getting the rating high is not a problem. But 2k is a long way so we go slow, but not so slow that it can be done without endurance.

The Interactives base training bands on a 2k test result. Since the erg shows Power directly, we can avoid the need for proxies.

[scottsaz1]

... The most important thing to do in the very early days is to enjoy yourself and get your technique nailed.

Having the most fun I've had in years! Really miss crew and have been spending far too much time watching YouTube videos.....nostalgia maybe, those were hard days for sure

[scottsaz1]

2. Would like to get faster and more efficient on the erg, while being able to row longer (45+ min) with intensity. Plus I'd love to work on my 2K times - my PB 6:48 was when I was 17. Have not done a test yet, but I'm thinking I'm probably 9:00+ - fitness level sucks

When 62 I did about a year of 5x5k a week, was then invited to race so did the last few weeks of a 26 week Interactive schedule. I got to about 7:10 for 2k with no difficulty, done at 28 and with a 10 Watt stroke (10 x 28 = 280 Watts, which is about 1:47 pace).

https://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/interactive

I'd done a lot of rowing from age 15 to 21, then none at all.

You certainly already have the technique and boat speed needed to get well below 7 minutes; the problem is endurance. Don't waste too much time on short fast intervals, except as a reduction of overall work load before racing. If you have good style, getting the rating high is not a problem. But 2k is a long way so we go slow, but not so slow that it can be done without endurance.

The Interactives base training bands on a 2k test result. Since the erg shows Power directly, we can avoid the need for proxies.

Thanks James! This really helped to level set. Endurance is definitely a problem. In your opinion, would you suggest to stick with the BPP, or work the interactive plan? They look quite a bit different. Or neither, and only row long SS for a while?

[jamesg]

I'd start by consolidating technique and endurance, which means distance done with an eye on the stroke itself. This is enough for health and fitness, and in any case has to be done. The first half of a long (26 week) Interactive can be used for this too.

Then if you want to race on the erg, once endurance is in place the second half of an Interactive will be very effective. I've never used any of the PPs; there are plenty of posts here on how they work and what they're for, as well as the websites.

It could be interesting to find a role in your local rowing club too. They'll certainly have some singles and doubles to help remind you what it's all about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf84O5cTWY4