Been rowing 2 weeks - need some reasonable goals

[Mark E]

Not so important on the erg, but on water the boat actually hits peak speed during the recovery part of the stroke. The power gets applied during the drive, but when the rowers' mass shifts toward the stern the boat accelerates (see Newton's third law). A rowing coaching will always implore athletes to go faster on the drive and slower on the recovery to maximize boat speed.

"It seems counter intuitive to me to allow drag to slow you down, only to put a bigger (short term) effort in just to get back up to speed. I'm coming at this from a running perspective though where constant effort is far and away the most efficient and I literally know nothing about rowing."

On the erg, you see many people who don't row on water much/ever who maintain a nearly 1:1 ratio of drive time to recovery time. This allows for a very high stroke rate and it can be an advantage for getting a good erg score. But it only works to a point because rushing up the slide curtails your ability to breathe and recover from the drive.

Watch these guys holding a 1:30 per 500 split for a 6,000 meter test (insane). They row beautifully and they are also dominant on water: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzxDRafnCtM

Read this too: http://www.worldrowing.com/news/eric-mu ... oor-rowing

Like a pro mountain biker told me when I was getting serious about MTB racing: Find out what the better guys in your category are doing for training. Do that.

[jamesg]

So what seems like good goals after a month of consistent rowing?

With your height and age you could be approaching a technique that with relative ease gives you 13-15 Watt stroke; i.e. 260-300W at rate 20.

When you have it, you have speed. Then use that stroke, since using it will give you the endurance needed to maintain that speed for distances.

[eengg]

Okay, I may throw in one session per week of fast 500m repeats just to see if it will help get my 2k time down by the end, my primary goal is still to keep fitness up, times are secondary. Plus I agree I am lacking strength but I'm fine on endurance.

Got anxious today and decided to see where I was for 10k and managed 36:15. Mixed feelings - if I'd have waited another week or 2 I'm sure that could be under 36:00 and I'm not sure I'll be motivated to go that hard again, we'll see.

[Remo]

You asked about the popularity of the various indoor rowing pieces. Here is a chart compiled by Greg Smith. (Personally, I've always been partial to the 5k. I liked hammering away for 20 minutes as opposed to getting hammered for 7 minutes. )

[Mark E]

eengg what do you think you would run for 10K right now if you were heathy for running? Just curious -- doesn't really have much bearing on your erg times.

When I hit my 2K best on the erg I did a 10K erg in 37:30 (or so, can't remember the score exactly) about a month before. I weighed 165 pounds at the time. I ran for cross-training in those days and usually did 10Ks between 38 and 39 minutes, but I had no background in running at that point (soccer player in high school).

I'm guessing that with another month or two of improving your rowing technique, along with better rowing-specific muscular endurance and aerobic capacity, you'd be capable of 6:10 to 6:20 for 2K.

That's quite remarkable for a new rower. The standard for getting an invitation to try out for national team is in the neighborhood (not sure if this is totally up to date) of 6:00 for a heavyweight (above 165 lbs -- but usually more like 185 to 210) and 6:40 for lightweight (under 165, with most athletes easily able to get to around 155-160).

However, there are guys who are monsters on the erg who never learn to row very well and they don't get selected. I seat raced (a style of on-water selection racing) against a guy with a 2K time that blew my doors, but I won every piece against him because he was hacking away at the water and not moving the boat.

[eengg]

Remo- Awesome, thanks. Maybe that means I'll throw a 5k in.

Mark- Tough question. Me now at very near the bottom of my fitness could maybe muster a 35:00 10k. I was never a 10k specialist so never attempted one at peak fitness but I suspect I could have gotten around 29:00. For you with no running background hitting 38 is very good but also soccer tends to produce decent distance runners.

I doubt I'll be able to get that low (6:20) for 2k based on what I intend to commit, but I'm feeling better about my chances at 6:40. Somewhat ironically, I never considered myself to be 'good' at running longer distances like the 10k, my best PR was in the mile and had the 2k been a more commonly run distance, it very well could have been my best event. I think my lack of strength and cumulative endurance for running will definitely make those events swapped on the switch to rowing.

And I definitely would not do well on actual water. This is based on real life experience in a Livingston.

As always appreciate the feedback.

[Mark E]

I was guessing that your 10K might be low 30s. Sounds like maybe even faster is possible. Bottom line is that you have a big engine, especially considering that you're quite bulky for running. Rowing suits you well.

Never say never about learning to row on water -- it takes some time but it's very learnable. Have you tried cycling? Like rowing, it rewards power more than the pure aerobic demands of running. The technique part is easy, but racing tactics take some time to learn.

[hjs]

29 min 10 for taller guy is pretty impressive. You do have a big engine. Your speciality was longer work?

[eengg]

Mark- I was 20-30lbs lighter and 5-15 years younger when I would have been capable of 29:00. I would have liked to have gotten into rowing earlier, too old and busy now to consider it.

hjs- My specialty was middle distances. I regularly raced on the track 800 - 1,500/mile, less frequently 3k - 5k. Then 8k - 10k for cross country races.

[eengg]

Ending the year with a 35:55.x and 6:39.x

Didn't end up going for other distances, just too little time with the holidays. Huge thanks to everyone who commented and gave advice. Hopefully back to running in 2019 but will be on the erg probably 1x per week.

One final question: I was speaking with someone who rowed in college, I've been pleasantly pleased with my times and where they are on the rankings (knowing that clearly not everyone participates and I'm definitely not actually ranked where the C2 rankings have me), but this guy said of my 10k that at a single local rowing club there would be 50 guys faster. Is that true? Knowing nothing I can't tell if that's accurate or hyperbole. I guess neither one would surprise me.

Thanks again.

[Mark E]

Regarding clubs with 50 guys pulling a faster 10K ... maybe a few clubs where that would be a possibility, but very few of them. That's a super solid 10K for a new rower. It's been a long time, but I won three gold medals at US senior nationals, and won a whole bunch of collegiate races, and your 10K would be a good second boat time for heavyweights in the programs I rowed with (Trinity College and Potomac Boat Club).

[hjs]

Ending the year with a 35:55.x and 6:39.x

Didn't end up going for other distances, just too little time with the holidays. Huge thanks to everyone who commented and gave advice. Hopefully back to running in 2019 but will be on the erg probably 1x per week.

One final question: I was speaking with someone who rowed in college, I've been pleasantly pleased with my times and where they are on the rankings (knowing that clearly not everyone participates and I'm definitely not actually ranked where the C2 rankings have me), but this guy said of my 10k that at a single local rowing club there would be 50 guys faster. Is that true? Knowing nothing I can't tell if that's accurate or hyperbole. I guess neither one would surprise me.

Thanks again.

Wr is around 31 min. Just this month the hour wr is reset, 135.4 18861 meters. I would say a serious younger rower should be sub 36, but anybody, a bit older, not fit, not to serious will not pull such a time.

To give you an idea, over here we have a yearly indoor 20 min race. Thats national, the netherlands, in the 40 plus a 139/1.41 ish time often gives the win. 50 plus a few seconds slower. Thats heavyweights.
The open result is often 132/33 pace if a big gun shows up.

[hobbit]

29:00 min for 10k for taller guy is pretty impressive.

. That's an understatement. That time would have got you into the top 30 men in the USA in 2018 or the top 10 in UK. Close to Callum Hawkins best and he was 4th in the London marathon in 2017.

[hjs]

29:00 min for 10k for taller guy is pretty impressive.

. That's an understatement. That time would have got you into the top 30 men in the USA in 2018 or the top 10 in UK. Close to Callum Hawkins best and he was 4th in the London marathon in 2017.

In context its very good, but not compared to Wr times, but those guys are mostly a bit shorter.
Bit like rowing 6.00, thats very good, but the very best pull that pace over 5k. Or 4 times in a row

[mitchel674]

You've only been rowing for two weeks and you're complaining that you're not the fastest?

This whole thread seems bizarre. I doubt you just got on the rower two weeks ago and are pulling those times.