Been rowing 2 weeks - need some reasonable goals

[eengg]

Hello - new member here. I've recently taken up rowing on an indoor rower as a means of cross training until I can run again which will hopefully be in about a month. But since I'll be spending this time doing all the training I figured I may as well set some goals for a few distances. After that I'll probably reduce to rowing once a week as running daily no longer appears to agree with my body and this has been the best replacement I've found (wish I'd found this sooner).

Was thinking of setting a goal to hit in at least a 2k and 10k, maybe a 5 or 6k or a half marathon but am undecided so I'm recruiting the people who actually know about this sort of stuff for advice.

Some background: after a few days of fumbling around figuring out what to do I finally found a groove in the mid 1:5x's for 10-15k sessions. This gets my heart where I want it for as long as I want it with a mild to moderate effort. I also did a 2k at the suggestion of someone on a running board and managed to barely crack 7:00 (very difficult, but that was after only a few times, I think I'd be faster now). Technically my 10k is about 38:30 right now but that was going pretty mild for 8k and pushing for 2. I'm late 30's, 6'4" and (unfortunately) getting ready to crack 200lbs though I'm hoping this will staunch the weight gain.

So what seems like good goals after a month of consistent rowing? I don't plan on doing structured workouts for prep, just 12-15k a day for aerobic maintenance, then maybe some time trials near the end. Is 6:40 too steep? It looks pretty because it's round 1:40's but getting barely under 1:45's was very hard, another 5s per 500 sounds crazy. For 10k I think 37:00 sounds reasonable, but 36:00 sounds ridiculous, maybe 36:30? Any other distances that are key for rowers?

Appreciate any/all replies, I'm sure you get new people asking the same dumb questions all the time.

[Citroen]

Try this plan https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/

[Mark E]

Those are very good numbers for a novice rower -- nice work! Be sure to visit the Concept2 website and take a good look at the technique videos. Rowing (like swimming, for example) is a deceptively complex movement and most of us are still working on smoothing out our strokes after many years of training. It's not just about looking smooth either -- good stroke mechanics deliver more power with less wasted effort. You'll see those numbers drop much faster as your technique improves.

What kind of running do you do? I recently switched back to rowing after years of focusing on running and cycling.

[Dangerscouse]

Your ability right now is very solid for a novice, but it's very difficult to guess what your ability could be, but you sound like you are well suited to the rower.

A 6:40 2k is a big jump from just under 7 mins, but it's far from impossible but will require regular and structured training. Also, don't try and break 6:40 and 37 mins for the 10k at the same time as you will be better served focusing on one or the other, or focus on 5k as this has transferable benefits for both.

For now I'd focus on technique, stroke rate and make sure drag isn't too high, and vary your sessions so you're doing faster and slower sessions over different distances. Targets will develop as you develop

[hjs]

If you row this as a newby you could be a lot faster if you really trained for a good while.
Won,t name goals, don,t know your training background, that matters a lot and you don,t really care, cause you are not really willing to train.

In general being tall and big is a plus, having a strong stroke is needed, thats your current weakpoint. And being very aerobicly fit, you said nothing about that. But I guess you have a background in aerobic sports.
Base should be longer sessions, at lower ratings, think 18/22. For shorter work you need speed, thats interval work, free rate, think 30 and above at 2k pace and below.

[iain]

I have never managed to get close to your times as an older lightweight, so take my thoughts as less authoratative than those above. But the amount you slowed between your all out 2k and the easier 10k is fairly typical of most rowers between all out pieces. This is probably why HJS suggests that it is strength that is your weakness. Most people can make significant initial gains, but I am not aware of the performance of anyone starting with your aerobic fitness. I suspect that the improvements you can make to 2k will be more than the 10k.

As for your question, very difficult to know what improvement is achievable. What rating (tyheStrokes per minute) were you rowing the 2k at and do you row for your 10-15ks? As others have said, the greatest improvements for new rowers are usually due to technique improvements. This may help you row at higher ratings or to maintain stronger strokes and have a significant improvement in the times. I would recommend that you do occassional rows trying to maintain a pace below the average achieved last time and then accelerate in the second half as you feel able. You didn't say how often you row, so I cannot suggest the frequency of these faster sessions. I would recommend that you do several sub-maximal sessions between each so that you can concentrate on technique and build the power per stroke while getting used to the difference between the high power of the drive and the relaxed pace of the recovery.

Best wishes

Iain

[eengg]

Wow, thanks for the responses.

Mark- I checked out the video, my technique may not be as bad as I feared. I'm sure it's still bad but I'm probably not going to screw up (many) body parts. I typically run 60-80 miles per week and will race just about anything from a mile to half marathon. Getting old though and injured too much.

Danger- I agree, 6:40 sounds like it may be too much. Might keep it as a goal time and be okay if I don't hit it. 37:00 sounds easy now but I know jumping a few seconds per 500 can add up quickly. I'm probably more suited to longer stuff though. Either way I will be time trialing both at some point. Like I said before, I'm not going to do any specific training, just keeping fitness and seeing what I can do after 4+ weeks.

hjs- I know it probably sounds like I'm being lazy about training but I just want to keep my fitness up. If it were feasible for me to do this outside on the water with friends I could see myself really taking it seriously, it's just not in the cards. Most of the benefit I currently get from running is fresh air and socializing (and it's the sport I am far and away best at so it's enjoyable on that level). Had I gotten into this earlier in life I likely would have stuck with it.

iain- I think for my hard 2k I was somewhere around 30-32 s/m and when I just go easy distance it's more like 26-28. I always start slow and end fast like you suggested, it's in my nature as an endurance athlete. Rowing 5x a week.

All - what are the most commonly rowed distances? Are 2k and 10k good standard measurements?

[Dangerscouse]

It will feel a bit weird to start with but try and slow down the stroke to 20-22 whilst maintaining a decent pace. I slowed it down over a number of weeks rather than in one jump. I find r21/22 to be my preferred rate, any slower usually feels too slow for me.

I rowed for years at r28 and only about 18 months slowed it down. Keep the drive fast and crisp, don't pause at the finish, just slow down the recovery.

The effort to pull a similar pace at r20 instead of r28 will be very noticeable, so don't worry if your pace slows down. As you get more used to it / stronger you will get faster.

One good thing about slowing down the stroke is that you get more distance per stroke e.g. if I row at r29 I'll generally travel circa 8m per stroke; at r20 this can be up to circa 14m.

The 2km is the best marker for rowing; it's the vast majority of rowers holy grail, but there are rankings for everything from 100m to 100km. Have a look at the Concept 2 page as it's got world rankings which you can filter by age group, light or heavyweight etc. This will give you a good idea of what others are doing, but there are some seriously talented people on there, but it doesn't cover a lot of the elite rowers.

[hjs]

If you run this much and have done for a long time, your aerobic fitness is ofcourse fine. If you only runned, your upperbody strenght will be modest at best. That can pick up rapidlly. 6.40 will be doable rapidly, if you want it.

Rowing is all about 2k, everything else is way lower. Currently sprinting is 500 and below is getting more populair.
for 2k fitness is very important, but you need a strong enough stroke. Rating 26/28 is way to high for training. 30/32 for a 2k test is fine though.

Never though you where lazy maybe not competative... Your build is getter suited for rowing, relative speaking you will do better.

[Mark E]

Agree with hjs that your size is well suited for rowing, but if running is what you enjoy the most I'm not sure it's worth worrying too much about which sport is "better" for you.

That's some solid running mileage you've been doing! I usually logged 35-45 miles a week. Managed to qualify for and race the Boston Marathon three times (I'd get up to 60 miles a week for a month or two during marathon preparation). Your mileage is especially impressive for a bigger-sized runner.

One thing about rowing that's nice is that you avoid the massive pounding that running inflicts. I had to curtail my running miles, and eventually switch to bike racing, because an arthritic hip was taking the fun out of running. Tried returning to running last year but the hip acted up again, so I thought why not go on the water with my local rowing club here in Boulder, Colorado. It's been a blast!

I rowed in college, and with Potomac Boat Club in Washington, DC, for a few years in my 20s, so I have that going for me. Still, the first few months required a lot of blowing the rust off my stroke. I'm still finding my rowing fitness three or four months later. The time I spent at Potomac was in a national team development program for lightweights -- it's hard to fathom ever approaching the erg times we pulled back then (and I was well behind most of the guys who made national team boats).

Anyway, hope the rowing works well for you as a cross-training option. If you're fit for rowing you're fit for just about anything else, too. And, if you get the chance to try rowing on water don't miss it -- it's a different as getting outside is to running on a treadmill.

[iain]

One good thing about slowing down the stroke is that you get more distance per stroke e.g. if I row at r29 I'll generally travel circa 8m per stroke; at r20 this can be up to circa 14m.

I agree with what you are saying, but just in case OP or other readers are as confused as i was, I think these numbers are a bit out. 8MPS @ 29SPM is 2:09 pace and a SPI of only 5.6, while 14MPS at R20 is 1:47 pace at 14.2SPI! At 2:00 / 500M 29SPM is 8.6MPS while 20SPM is 12.5M. Given a bit of pace drift, with practice I would expect Op to be able to pull 1:57 - 2:00 for longer R22 rows.

As for targets, I would say 37:00 10k is a hard ask as it would require maintaining a rating of 29 or so with a stronger stroke or serious strength improvements and 37:30 would sound more realistic. Without training for shorter distances, I imagine that a short term 2k goal below 6:50 is unrealistic.

Whatever you do make sure you do what you enjoy, hurting yourself for an arbitary gopal in a secondary sport doesn't sound to clever to me!

- PM

[Dangerscouse]

One good thing about slowing down the stroke is that you get more distance per stroke e.g. if I row at r29 I'll generally travel circa 8m per stroke; at r20 this can be up to circa 14m.

I agree with what you are saying, but just in case OP or other readers are as confused as i was, I think these numbers are a bit out. 8MPS @ 29SPM is 2:09 pace and a SPI of only 5.6, while 14MPS at R20 is 1:47 pace at 14.2SPI! At 2:00 / 500M 29SPM is 8.6MPS while 20SPM is 12.5M. Given a bit of pace drift, with practice I would expect Op to be able to pull 1:57 - 2:00 for longer R22 rows.

Ok, fair enough. I could have sworn when I pull a r29 (this could be at 1:38-1:45) 1 it was always about 8m or 9m between pulls, but there's no mathematics being applied, it's just me counting down the last 500m as I always sprint this last section.

[hjs]

One good thing about slowing down the stroke is that you get more distance per stroke e.g. if I row at r29 I'll generally travel circa 8m per stroke; at r20 this can be up to circa 14m.

I agree with what you are saying, but just in case OP or other readers are as confused as i was, I think these numbers are a bit out. 8MPS @ 29SPM is 2:09 pace and a SPI of only 5.6, while 14MPS at R20 is 1:47 pace at 14.2SPI! At 2:00 / 500M 29SPM is 8.6MPS while 20SPM is 12.5M. Given a bit of pace drift, with practice I would expect Op to be able to pull 1:57 - 2:00 for longer R22 rows.

As for targets, I would say 37:00 10k is a hard ask as it would require maintaining a rating of 29 or so with a stronger stroke or serious strength improvements and 37:30 would sound more realistic. Without training for shorter distances, I imagine that a short term 2k goal below 6:50 is unrealistic.

Whatever you do make sure you do what you enjoy, hurting yourself for an arbitary gopal in a secondary sport doesn't sound to clever to me!

- PM

Really disagree, a non rower with a clear weakpoint, in this case strenght, can expect fast newbie gains. Those targets are all doable.

[eengg]

Danger- I tried slowing my rate down yesterday and it is difficult. I can kinda maintain 24-25 but 26-28 is more comfortable. Question: if you're on the water is it really more efficient to row slower? It seems counter intuitive to me to allow drag to slow you down, only to put a bigger (short term) effort in just to get back up to speed. I'm coming at this from a running perspective though where constant effort is far and away the most efficient and I literally know nothing about rowing. What is the logic behind it? I haven't and don't know how to measure distance per stroke, but when I'm 26-28 I'm still doing full range of motion.

hjs- Agree, most runners are not built in the upper body. I'm definitely not strong there but I'd guess I'm stronger upper body that most other runners. And I'm definitely too competitive. Hence why I'm here trying to figure out how fast I should be aiming for during a short cross training segment. I want to come away from this and be able to talk to rowers and not be embarrassed about times or lack of knowledge.

Mark- Not concerned with which sport is better for me. I know it's running, but I've discovered I like rowing and I need it at least temporarily. Congrats on the BQs, I know that's big thing for marathoners. My weight has only recently been this high, 2-3 years ago I was more like 180 and in college I was under 170 (typical skinny runner). Sorry to hear about losing running, that impact is a killer. Would love to try on the water, but it seems like a hard thing to do both time-wise and how to get introduced. I'm also certain that I would be a disaster with actual oars.

iain- Thanks for putting the math in perspective for distance, rate, and speed. Still can't wrap my mind around how that all comes together, but it's good to see. Hurting myself for arbitrary goals is what I do best though so I'll be shooting for the moon. I had a 6:56.x on my 4th time on the machine, I hope that after several weeks of conditioning -albeit NOT a specific training plan- I can get more than 2% faster (though I do understand the diminishing returns of effort in regards to performance times).

Thanks all for the information and guidance. I appreciate it and will gladly return the favor if anyone needs information on running.

[hjs]

If you only want short term progress, forget everything, do 500 m repeats, take 2min rest. Start out around 1.45. Do this every other day orso. Use, long full strokes. You will get stronger every session. If you feel the need do a testpiece. Repeat

Otw rowers do 90% at low rates. Rowers is power endurance, running is just endurance. Big difference.