Drag Factor

[cshaughnessy]

Generally what is the recommended drag factor for training ? I am working on a drag of 140 ish which is resistance level 7 at the gym I attend.
I follow the Concept 2 long workout twice a week and the short workout once a week.
Are there alternative training plan(s) as I find the "long sessions" can be a little repetitive. I appreciate on the day where there is repetition I could look for an alternative day's suggestion !
Many thanks

[Dangerscouse]

The accepted wisdom says it should be circa 120-130 for men but it's subjective so have a play around and see what feels best for you. I don't think there is a correct drag for everyone as some people like it closer to 100. If you are doing short sprints it's usual to have it on 200ish.

I generally row at 130-135 but I knock it down to 125ish for longer distances.

[KeithT]

I row pretty much everything at a 130 DF. Every now and then I will go higher for a super short sprint but I do anything from 500m to a HM at 130 as it seems to be the best for me. I think most people go too high on DF, I am fairly big and I am strong and 130 is plenty for me. Like Dangerscouse stated you have to play around with it, just don't think that there is some magic to a higher DF giving you more for your effort. As far as the training there are literally thousands of variations you can do. You can just do standard long intervals or steady pieces for a set time or for a set distance - vary the intensity for a change or go for a goal/PB. That said, at some point (and I am still newer to rowing) it will feel repetitive but just listen to some music or focus on form and just remind yourself the good thing you are doing by working out and training.

[lancecampeau]

At 228 lbs, I prefer more drag then most around here... that said... I have a standard set of DF settings that I use for different distances and stroke rates. A bit unorthodox...

100m, 500m - DF 160 to 185 - SR 40 to 44 average (max of 56 to 58)
1K, 4 min, 5K, 6K, 30 min & 10K - DF 135 to 155 - SR 24 to 36
60 min & HM - DF 155 to 205 (This is a total oddity, but it works for me) - SR 23 to 26
25K and over - DF 115 to 130 - SR 21 to 24

[KeithT]

100m, 500m - DF 160 to 185 - SR 40 to 44 average (max of 56 to 58)
1K, 4 min, 5K, 6K, 30 min & 10K - DF 135 to 155 - SR 24 to 36
60 min & HM - DF 155 to 205 (This is a total oddity, but it works for me) - SR 23 to 26
25K and over - DF 115 to 130 - SR 21 to 24

I am not one to question what works for people - if this works for you then it's all good but man that seems like a lot of drag, especially as you keep a good rate. I keep much less drag and a slower rate on most compared to you but I still have solid times. Again, if it works it works but in general I think people use too much drag. At my gym (yes its a CF gym where everyone thinks putting the damper to 10 means you are a stud) I see people use too much drag all the time and just having them lower some their split times drop dramatically.

[lancecampeau]

I am not one to question what works for people - if this works for you then it's all good but man that seems like a lot of drag, especially as you keep a good rate. I keep much less drag and a slower rate on most compared to you but I still have solid times. Again, if it works it works but in general I think people use too much drag. At my gym (yes its a CF gym where everyone thinks putting the damper to 10 means you are a stud) I see people use too much drag all the time and just having them lower some their split times drop dramatically.

My aerobic capacity is not that great at higher stroke rates (over 30) but I have good stamina & power at moderate stroke rates (23 to 27). My 6:53.5 2K was pulled at R28, which I imagine some might consider fairly low for a 2K TT... ?

A higher DF seems to be a better fit for my weight at that stroke rate range. Not sure why...

[jamesg]

drag factor for training
alternative training plan(s)

Drag: has to be high enough to let you deliver as much power as you want, but low enough to let you pull a full length stroke with standard rowing technique. The older and taller you are, the more you'll want low drag. Most use 120-130. I use 85 for 120-130W at 20-22.

Plans: if you want to race or deliver a good 2k time, see the Interactives: https://indoorsportservices.co.uk/training/interactive
There are about 200, sorted as to experience, days a week, total weeks to race. All progressive, the first half is endurance and technique (so fine for getting/staying fit), the second for race sharpening. The schedules have Watt bands based on a 2k test, so no need to use HR; and a later second test ensures band adjustment.

Long UT1 and AT work (i.e. below race Watts) in any case can be broken up into 5-10 minute intervals; with shortish breaks to avoid too much cooling the mind is kept busy.

[jimmyshand]

As you've seen you'll get lots of answers on this. My reply would be to use the DF that feels best for the piece you're doing. Guys my size seem to use a higher DF than feels good for me though. I find once it goes about 140 it feels really sluggish.

I normally row about 115 if I'm doing anything between 5k and half marathon, though at the moment by back is a bit tender so I'm using very lowest which is about 80 on my machine.

I'm unduly interested in drag factor though and posted this on the forum a while back, where I was testing how hard it was to pull 1:45 pace at different drag factors. You may find it useful to try something like this yourself to see how it all feels. DF of 212 was pretty harsh!


This was just a drag factor test and check on damper settings. All damper settings refer to the mid-point next to the number, between lines.

1, DF82, quite difficult to pull sub 1:45 but maybe possible with much higher rate
2, DF90, again not that easy to pull sub 1:45
3, DF99, easier to pull sub 1:45
4, DF115, easy to pull sub 1:45 and this feels like my sweet-spot overall
5, DF130, easy to pull sub 1:45 but felt more sluggish than 4
6, DF146, definitely a bit sluggish but easy to pull sub 1:45, not a problem at all but couldn't keep it up for any distance I reckon
7, DF169, easy to pull sub 1:40 here but not great for my back I could feel it
8, DF183, this was very sluggish, and as above but harder to pull
9, DF199, very sluggish indeed and no way I would use this for any distance at all probably
10, DF212, incredibly sluggish.

When I went back to DF115 it felt incredibly easy to pull hard and fast.

[johnlvs2run]

Rowerg pb drag factors in 2002/3.
203 - 1:27.0 - max pull (not pb)
154 - 1:32.6 - 250m
110 - 1:39.6 - 500m
097 - 1:47.8 - 1000m
099 - 1:53.7 - 5000m
085 - 1:56.3 - 10000m
096 - 1:57.8 - 21097m
077 - 2:07.1 - 42195m

[cshaughnessy]

Many thanks to all the folks who replied - much appreciated.

[ukaserex]

Was curious if any used the force curve display to determine which DF revealed the more efficient stroke...

I've only been rowing on an erg - down South, I've yet to even see a shell to consider rowing in the water. Not sure I would like that, given the state of our water! Pretty gross. But I digress.

I would think, given that efficiency is the best approach, trying out each of the DF's (with the idea that some circumstances, like a sprint, would be good for a faster stroke rate of 33-36, other longer rows might be better for a 20-24, etc.) and seeing if a given drag factor would reveal a more efficient force curve.

It seems odd to just suggest "how does it feel"? There are things that have felt right to men and led to misery.

[jamesg]

Efficiency depends on our technique, not on drag. Drag lets us mimic boat speed by adjusting the flywheel speed at the catch; and is usually set low since boats go fast.

In rowing we use mostly the large thigh and hip muscles. The technique to do this has a specific set of sequences and postures that let us move fast at the catch:
https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

The resulting force curve is a half sine wave, but with the peak to the left. This means that we have used the legs hard at the start of the stroke, where they are needed to accelerate our body mass and so catch up with the flywheel as soon as possible. This and the hands-swing-legs recovery sequence offer the longest stroke, which is important, since Work = Length x Force.

On the C2 erg, Work per stroke is shown (indirectly) on the PM, and is Watts/Rating. Values between 5 and 15 are typical, depending on sex, age and height as well as on technique. 5 will get you fit, 15 some medals.

[hjs]

Was curious if any used the force curve display to determine which DF revealed the more efficient stroke...

I've only been rowing on an erg - down South, I've yet to even see a shell to consider rowing in the water. Not sure I would like that, given the state of our water! Pretty gross. But I digress.

I would think, given that efficiency is the best approach, trying out each of the DF's (with the idea that some circumstances, like a sprint, would be good for a faster stroke rate of 33-36, other longer rows might be better for a 20-24, etc.) and seeing if a given drag factor would reveal a more efficient force curve.

It seems odd to just suggest "how does it feel"? There are things that have felt right to men and led to misery.

True, pure sprinting is not 33/36, but 50 or more and needs high drag.

[Dangerscouse]

Was curious if any used the force curve display to determine which DF revealed the more efficient stroke...

I've only been rowing on an erg - down South, I've yet to even see a shell to consider rowing in the water. Not sure I would like that, given the state of our water! Pretty gross. But I digress.

I would think, given that efficiency is the best approach, trying out each of the DF's (with the idea that some circumstances, like a sprint, would be good for a faster stroke rate of 33-36, other longer rows might be better for a 20-24, etc.) and seeing if a given drag factor would reveal a more efficient force curve.

It seems odd to just suggest "how does it feel"? There are things that have felt right to men and led to misery.

The flaw I have found in the force curve is that a high drag can feel good to start with but over time can become too heavy. For example I rowed at 200df a couple of months ago, by mistake as I didn't check the damper and it was a gym erg, and it felt good for a 30r21 (I always seem to end up at r21 instead of r20) but when I tried it for a 10 mile session a couple of days later the efficiency dropped off at just past halfway and it suddenly felt like I was rowing in mud.

If I used the force curve, it would have been for a limited time and I would have concluded it was a good idea but as I rowed 'by feel' I knew it was better for me to stick with my usual 135df.

Intuition is a big part of rowing in my experience not least as it can be how you perceive it to be rather than what the data says, which then helps to keep your bad inner voice / chimp quiet.

[GJS]

Pretty difficult to determine efficiency from looking at the force curve, I would guess.

Not least because, for reasons I don't understand but others might, it's a good deal easier to produce a smooth curve at high drag (even while gross technical deficiencies remain ).

Easy to do a few test pieces, however.

See what happens to your hr when you row at a fixed pace at different drag factors. (Ideally testing at similar levels of fatigue, in similar conditions etc etc)