Recovery Rows ...

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » October 16th, 2004, 4:49 pm

What constitues a recovery row for you ... do you judge it by feel, HR, or a split. I sometimes wonder it my recovery rows are faster than they should be (so negating the benefit), but often feel that I went any slower I would have been better off with another hour in bed. - tks George

[old] ssiegel · Post by **[old] ssiegel** » October 16th, 2004, 5:34 pm

You'll probably get 1,000 different answers to this one, but here are my thoughts.... Conventional wisdom in other sports, such as biking and running, is 65-70% of maximum adjusted heart rate, if you use heart rate as a measure. The general principle behind a recovery workout is to use it for just that - recovery. So, if you go hard enough that it hinders your recovery, that is bad (though it is often tempting to do that). The goal is to just get the meters in and to build/maintain your base. That said, others, including some on this forum, would say that there is no point to "just getting the meters in".....and maybe you would be better off just staying in bed I guess I would disagree in the logic that a recovery row like that is really "just getting the meters in" with no purpose - I would argue that it is used to build/maintain a base while speeding recovery. I can't point to any specific controlled study that confirms this, but I can point to various running, biking, training books that use this philosophy.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » October 16th, 2004, 6:22 pm

Ssiegal, I agree. My recovery rowing is recovery rowing, at 45-50% of heart rate reserve. For me this is usually around 2k pace plus 25%.

[old] Ash · Post by **[old] Ash** » October 18th, 2004, 5:15 pm

Below 60% using the karvonen formula. For me this is a 6k at around 1:59 - 2:03 pace at 20 - 22 spm, so very easy. I've heard people say they are doing recovery rows that basically constitute UT2/UT1 session, Roy Brook is a big offender with his 90 minute rows at 1:58, hope you're listening Roy!!

[old] Coach Gus · Post by **[old] Coach Gus** » October 18th, 2004, 6:24 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Ash @ Oct 18 2004, 01:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> ...Roy Brook is a big offender with his 90 minute rows at 1:58, hope you're listening Roy!!  </td></tr></table> Roy's 90 minute sessions are not planned as recovery rows. His recovery sessions are usually 30 to 45 minute sessions with HR maximum of 75%. Average, of course, is lower. I'm of the opinion that working out at less than 60-65% doesn't accomplish much as a work out and you might as well take the day off completely.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » October 18th, 2004, 8:41 pm

I agree that if workouts are less than 60% then something is wrong -- probably over training. Take a few weeks off then start back up so you can handle both the workouts and the recovery rowing in between.

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » October 18th, 2004, 10:41 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (John Rupp @ Oct 19 2004, 01:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I agree that if workouts are less than 60% then something is wrong -- probably over training. Take a few weeks off then start back up so you can handle both the workouts and the recovery rowing in between.  </td></tr></table> Hi John, up above you say that yours are at 45-50% HRR are you assuming that Gus's figure is not? ... otherwise this seems a contradiction in some respects. Another factor for me I guess is where in the training programme I am at .... eg out of season I may choose to take the day off and recieve the psychological benefit of a rest as well as the physical, but in the build up to a race I would still put in the 'k's of a recovery row. - George

[old] Ash · Post by **[old] Ash** » October 19th, 2004, 6:04 am

Gus I know this, but he often quotes them as recovery peices! 60% is the low end UT2 band. At this level your are promoting a physiological response/adaptation. Below this the training effect is negligable, but i find it helps with my recovery phase. Its personal choice, if you want to call a peice a recovery row then it has to be that, too hard and its just another training peice. Had email asking about the karvonen formula, this is regarded as the most accurate way of working to a certain intensity. For example, if you want to do a UT1 Session at 75%: Find your heart rate reserve: Heart rate reserve (HRR) = Maximum HR (MHR) - (RHR) Resting HR Then: (HRR/100) x intesity (in this case 75%) + RHR Using my figures as an example: 217 - 41 = 176 (176 / 100) x 75 + 41 = 173 bpm This is a very interesting article that touches on low level sessions: <a href='http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0696.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/0696.htm</a> And info on the karvonen formula can be found here: <a href='http://www.primusweb.com/fitnesspartner ... ty/thr.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.primusweb.com/fitnesspartner ... thr.htm</a>

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » October 19th, 2004, 3:57 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (GeorgeD @ Oct 18 2004, 07:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>up above you say that yours are at 45-50% HRR are you assuming that Gus's figure is not? ... otherwise this seems a contradiction in some respects.  </td></tr></table> Hi George, You have lost me. What does "are you assuming that Gus's figure is not" refer to, and what seems like a contradiction to you? 1) Recovery rowing is recovery rowing. It is not specific training or a "workout" per se, although rowing for a couple of hours is quite relaxing and has physiological effects that rowing harder does not. Rowing at a 90% effort is not recovery rowing. 2) Doing a hard workout and only being able to get the heart rate up to 60% indicates that something is wrong, which is probably over training. In any case the best thing to do is to back off, let the body recover, and start over with a BALANCE between workouts and recovery sessions. 3) Workouts and other specific sessions etc at race pace would be in the range of 80 to 90% for the most part, at least that's where I keep them but don't check my heart rate very often.

[old] Ash · Post by **[old] Ash** » October 19th, 2004, 6:19 pm

Who said they cannot get their HR over 60%?

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