Marathon Training

[old] sloro7 · Post by **[old] sloro7** » October 4th, 2004, 7:14 pm

Hello everyone, This is my first post. I have gotten a lot of great training advice on this forum but need to ask a couple of questions. I have been erging on and off as an adjunct to my weight training for a couple of years. For the last two months I have stopped all weights and concentrated solely on the erg. I am not very fast: 7:37 2000. I just finished my third half-marathon yesterday but would like to do a full one. At the end of my half I feel that in no way am I in any shape for a full. My glutes kill me for the last 4000 meters of my half. Breathing is not a problem. My 2:08 pace is very comfortable aerobically. Do I just need to row more? Will the pain lessen as I continue to train? Also, I realize this is a very general question, but about how long does it take to train comfortably at a sub 2:00 pace. I average between 5 and 10 k a day, depending on how I feel. I usually do a long piece on Sunday. I am 48 years old and weigh 200 pounds. I train with a DF of between 130 and 140. Sorry for the long winded post!

[old] michaelb · Post by **[old] michaelb** » October 4th, 2004, 8:12 pm

I have only rowed 1 marathon, but am thinking of doing another this fall. Are you rowing halfs without stopping at all? Were you planning on rowing the full without getting off? The rules allow you to stop, since the clock keeps running. For me, the thought of rowing a full without stopping and changing positions, adding padding, eating, and drinking a little is just too painful to think about it. So yeah, I think your glutes are going to kill. Bubble wrap may help. If you are training for the marathon, 5k a day is not enough, so you need to bring that up. Make 30 minutes your minimum, and 10k your regular, and do plenty of hour long rows (I find rowing time pieces much harder mentally, so good for the marathon). Then think about the M as 3-4 pieces, and you should be ready to try it in a month or so. The 2:08 pace may be a little fast, so try 2:10 or 2:12; the difference in effort does add up at that distance.

[old] sloro7 · Post by **[old] sloro7** » October 4th, 2004, 8:21 pm

Thanks for the advice, I usually stop for about 30 seconds in my half marathon piece. I like the part about the 10ks. I will give that a try and add longer pieces when I have the time.

[old] Canoeist · Post by **[old] Canoeist** » October 5th, 2004, 7:59 am

I found that fairly hard 10Ks were good training for the marathon. 5Ks are a bit too short. Alternating 10Ks at 70% and 80% Heart Rate is good training. When you do a marathon, you should do the first half at about 70% heart rate. (I am 48 years old and my 70% heart rate is 143 bpm.) If you go much faster than this, you run a high risk of burning out before the finish line. 70% heart rate may seem too easy, as it is the pace of recovery workouts, but you will be glad that you started out slow when 30K rolls around. Mentally,I break the marathon into a 2195m warm up, and then do 4 x 10K. When there is only 10K remaining, I know the end is near! Cheers, Paul Flack

[old] Godfried · Post by **[old] Godfried** » October 5th, 2004, 11:33 am

Look for Concept2 advice : <a href='http://www.concept2.com/rowing/motivate ... aining.asp' target='_blank'>click</a> . My preparation <a href='http://concept2.van-diepen.nl/21097.pdf' target='_blank'>click</a> and planning <a href='http://concept2.van-diepen.nl/42195.pdf' target='_blank'>click</a> , and realisation <a href='http://concept2.van-diepen.nl/double_play.pdf' target='_blank'>click</a> . Also there are a lot of Taff's preparing and sharing , see from around <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... =60&st=465' target='_blank'>click</a> . Just note this : try to do a lot of long rows before you try a full marathon.

[old] damccabe · Post by **[old] damccabe** » October 5th, 2004, 12:51 pm

If it's really your glutes and not your sit bones that are sore, you might consider lowering the heal cups a notch. By moving your feet up or down, you can somewhat change the muscle usage distribution. Or at least it seems that way to me.

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » October 5th, 2004, 1:37 pm

Perhaps you can get away w/ training for a marathon mostly doing 10k rows, but that seems short to me. How long is your "long row" on the weekend? When I'm thinking about doing a mere 1/2M at a brisk pace, I make sure that for a month or six weeks, I've done one row a week of about 90 min. In addition, I routinely do 60 min workouts. Tom Rawls

[old] sloro7 · Post by **[old] sloro7** » October 5th, 2004, 5:36 pm

Lots of great tips here. It's going to take a while to digest everything. In answer to the question of how far I row on my Sunday long rows....about 15k. I am thinking of increasing that if possible. BTW I finally rowed my 30 minute piece in under a 2:00 pace...1:59.9!! today. I work at a large University so I can make use of their recreational facilities during lunch. Long pieces are difficult because of time constraints. How much training is involved to be able to row at a 1:50 or faster pace like I see some people are able to do? Is there a lot of interval work or long distance (or a combination of both) involved? With the type of job I have (somewhat physical) I can only realistically devote about 70k meters a week to the erg. It is unbelievable to see some people rowing over 30k a day! Maybe when I retire. I would also love to try to find a boat club in the spring for some on the water rowing. Thanks again everyone.

[old] Canoeist · Post by **[old] Canoeist** » October 6th, 2004, 8:30 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (sloro7 @ Oct 5 2004, 09:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> How much training is involved to be able to row at a 1:50 or faster pace like I see some people are able to do? Is there a lot of interval work or long distance (or a combination of both) involved?  </td></tr></table> I was doing about 70K per week when I broke the UK 40+ marathon record. I was doing 10K per day and then onece a week doing an hour or a half marathon. I did one 30K just before my marathon row to see how it felt sitting that long and to test my drinking strategy. If you are doing a 2:00 pace for half an hour, you have a very long way to go to get a marathon at a 1:50 pace. Some people may train a lifetime and never be able to hold that pace for 2 hours and 35 minutes. You should be able to hold a 1:44 pace for half an hour if you are in good enough shape to hold 1:50 for a marathon. Cheers, Paul Flack

[old] sloro7 · Post by **[old] sloro7** » October 6th, 2004, 6:03 pm

Hi Paul, I guess my last question of rowing at a 1:50 pace was a bit vague. In no way did I mean this as my marathon pace! I would like to row a 5k or 10k at a 1:50 pace, not a marathon! When I first started out a 2:10 pace was very difficult at these distances, now I know I will get there eventually. My times are coming down slowly but surely. Anything worth doing requires a lot of effort and time. I had rotator cuff surgery about 18 months ago and feel very fortunate I can row at all. I used to bench press well over 300lbs and it came to a point where I could barely train at all. If I can row comfortably for the rest of my life I will be very grateful. Again, thanks for all your advice. Chuck K.

[old] tow rope · Post by **[old] tow rope** » October 7th, 2004, 9:04 pm

My concept 3 is on order and I would like to extend this discussion with a question. I came to erging through a number of serious running injuries that have left me ever so much closer to knee replacement. In training for my last running marathon I: spent 5 weeks building a base of 30 mi / wk. for the next 16 wk I trained with a program that inclded: 1 weekly short interval workout (200M to 1500M)+ 1 weekly tempo workout (built up to 10Min hard / 5 easy) / 4 reps 1 long run that built up to 23 mi. 3 weekly easy runs (4 mi / 8 mi) 3 weekly weight workouts. with a 3 week taper. 1) Is this the kind of program that would translate to erg marathon success? 2) Are there other similar programs pointed specifically at erging, and if there are please point me to them? Thanks Tow Rope

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » October 8th, 2004, 1:33 am

Congratulations getting your C2 rowing machine and welcome to the forum. I am a long time runner and there are many other runners who are also using the C2. I think 30 miles a week is not enough to do the marathon unless you are just aiming to finish it. 70 km a week should be quite sufficient, although I think a minimum of 100 km a week would be better. Mixing your base inclusive with your other training week to week would seem to be fine to me, making it a continuum to your marathon. There is no reason to separate base training from regular training, as you always need the base and you always need the other training too, so I prefer to have them all in the schedule week to week. Short intervals are okay for the marathon, as long as you are doing quite a few of them. Tempo rows are good. I'm presuming you mean at marathon, half marathon, 1hour, or 10k pace. Since you are aiming for the marathon, keep in mind that your specific training is aiming for the marathon pace and marathon distance. I prefer doing long sessions instead of long rows and never do a long row unless it's a time trial. For example you could do 5x 8 km with 10 minute rests, replenishing with food and drinks on the breaks, then do a few short intervals at the end. This gives you the marathon in distance for training but not as strenuous as doing the actual marathon with no breaks in between. I did this session the week before my only marathon on the erg. If I do this session again it would probably be 2 weeks before the marathon next time. Plenty of easy rowing is good for recuperation and recovery. I think a 3 week taper is too long. Running programs work very well for rowing. This depends on the quality and focus of the program though.

[old] tow rope · Post by **[old] tow rope** » October 9th, 2004, 11:03 am

John, Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate your input and always look for your posts. Regards Tow Rope

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » October 9th, 2004, 12:50 pm

The C2 UK site has a training guide with a marathon training program in it. I can't vouch for its merits, but it might interest you. Tom Rawls