Pete Plan Thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » May 17th, 2018, 11:27 am

mdpfirrman wrote:I honestly think Stroke rate is going to vary widely based on height and strength.
Shorter people (like us) need to put in more strokes, right? Have you attempted to do a 2k @ SPM >30?

I just looked at my 1k from last year's virtual challenge. It was a F&D where I started at 32 then drifted down to 29. For the last 200m, I pulled it up to 30.
Male, January 1971
Neptune Beach, FL
on way back to LWT

Street
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Street » May 17th, 2018, 11:52 am

RayOfSunshine wrote:
mdpfirrman wrote:I honestly think Stroke rate is going to vary widely based on height and strength.
Shorter people (like us) need to put in more strokes, right? Have you attempted to do a 2k @ SPM >30?

I just looked at my 1k from last year's virtual challenge. It was a F&D where I started at 32 then drifted down to 29. For the last 200m, I pulled it up to 30.
I think I'd die going above 30! Even my speed intervals seem to settle around 28, 29 at a push.

warnie
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by warnie » May 17th, 2018, 2:42 pm

@David - thanks. Definitely starting to pay off. Following it to the letter and not trying to make big imrpovements and increasing SPM etc Think that's the best way to do it - patience!

@Ray - cheers :D

Tonight I did BPP 3.3 6000M at a Season best time (by 1.9 secs) of 27:15. I've been so proud of myself for training this week with a sore throat, the lungs were burning at the end of each workout but feel so much better after making the effort.

warnie
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by warnie » May 17th, 2018, 2:48 pm

RayOfSunshine wrote:
mdpfirrman wrote:I honestly think Stroke rate is going to vary widely based on height and strength.
Shorter people (like us) need to put in more strokes, right? Have you attempted to do a 2k @ SPM >30?

I just looked at my 1k from last year's virtual challenge. It was a F&D where I started at 32 then drifted down to 29. For the last 200m, I pulled it up to 30.
@Ray - if you're short I am positively vertically challenged at 5'6"!! When i rowed many years ago I never read or studied anything and jsut assumed that more SPM was better. Since coming back after years away three weeks ago, reading the forum and doing the BPP I have totally lowered my SPM to 21-23 (so far!!). During the row tonight I did increase the rate to 28 just to get a feel for technique and smoothness at a higher rate, it felt good but I'll never compete with you tall guys!!

mdpfirrman
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by mdpfirrman » May 18th, 2018, 1:53 pm

G-dub wrote:I love these discussions about rate - especially with Mike:

On the erg, like in OTW rowing, productive length is an asset. But being long by overreaching beyond what would make for an efficient application of power for your body type isn't, I don't think. On the erg the only real requirement is to generate as many watts as possible and to hold that for the duration of the TT. "Full strokes" (which I take Mike to mean long pretty strokes like real rowers make) aren't a requirement at all as long as you are achieving the highest watts and sustaining those.
So I'm like a human Guinea pig then? :lol: I think I've made every mistake you can make rowing yet, somehow, I still love it!

James said something once that hit home with me. He's a very succinct wise rower on here. He said something to the extent of "work a lot on your stroke, use that stroke when you do slow rate work and also use that stroke when you do high rate work...". I think in my last race, I honestly used a pretty consistent stroke throughout with the exception of maybe the last 10 pulls when I shortened it up just to put in a final sprint.


Free rate work, even if it's lighter and faster can help you improve/speed up stroke rate. After that one race (where I averaged 24), I didn't do a SS where I let myself go below 22. Also, I'd play around on longer rows, practicing (like on a L4 Wolverine workout) varying stroke rates for given times -- 30 seconds or 1 minute or three minutes holding a certain stroke rate. Also, at the end of longer rows, I'd see if I could hold a certain stroke rate (like 30) when tired, for like a minute. I honestly think the worst thing someone can do is drastically go to bad form when upping SR. Not worth it to me. Like Glenn mentioned, though, you also don't want to artificially slow or delay a stroke too long at the catch or at the finish. For me, I've noticed that as soon as my feet aren't flat on the return (just when I start to get up on the balls of my feet), I'm in danger of hanging around too long at the catch and I need to engage my legs and drive through to the bottom of my feet. I know I've been doing this, too, when my knees hurt or my calves are overly sore. When I consciously think about this, I feel I'm not wasting efforts at the catch. Similarly, I think I have slow hands. Many on here mentioned to me to work on making my hands more "light" or feathering the end of the drive with the hands into the chest. I had a really bad habit for my first couple of years of rowing thumping my chest with the handle, like that made me faster. Just the opposite actually. I find I'm most efficient with good form when I'm able to drive through the legs first, sitting up, still leaning slightly forward when I start to engage the torso and then upper body. Should be fluid. Took me way too long to understand that power (for me) was through drive speed, fluidity and limiting wasted effort. I also think core strength has a lot to do with quick returns. Mine was lacking when I started -- still needs work but it's much better now.

I'm still a work in progress, but I think mostly I'm limited by time on the rower now and strength. Getting to SR of 30 for me would mean a 6:55 or so 2K. I'm quite a long bit off of that for now.

I'm going to need at least another week before I join in. I'm getting back in the swing of things now.
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Mike Pfirrman
53 Yrs old, 5' 10" / 185 lbs (177cm/84kg)

jbhop5857
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jbhop5857 » May 18th, 2018, 7:01 pm

Good Day,
Man, this week has been screwy with schedule and I intentionally started this week thinking it would be normal. Oh well.

Cycle 1/ Week 1/ Day 4

5k SS @ 2:02 with 30+spm.

I will be upping these distances slowly over the weeks, but really want to focus on the sprints more than I did during the last rounds.

Have a good evening

David
Age: 40
6ft.
195lbs
2k: 6:50.2 - 2017 Yeah, I count the tenths on this one.
5K: 18:07.1 - 2020
6K: 23:28 - 2015
10K: 36:57 - 2020
HM: 1:22:48 - 2017
30 Min: 7937 - 2017
60 Min: 15625 - 2020
FM: 2:58:19.3 -2020
50k 3:38:44 - 2020
100k 7:29:15 - 2020

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jackarabit
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jackarabit » May 18th, 2018, 9:31 pm

Jbhop writes:
I will be upping these distances slowly over the weeks, but really want to focus on the sprints more than I did during the last rounds.
Good man! :)
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

M_77_5'-7"_156lb
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RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » May 18th, 2018, 10:16 pm

jbhop5857 wrote: 5k SS @ 2:02 with 30+spm.

I will be upping these distances slowly over the weeks, but really want to focus on the sprints more than I did during the last rounds.

Have a good evening

David
30+ SPM on anything >1k is so far away from my fitness level.

As you up the distance, are you going to keep the SPM >30?
Male, January 1971
Neptune Beach, FL
on way back to LWT

jbhop5857
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jbhop5857 » May 18th, 2018, 10:37 pm

Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I was thinking about my sprints in the morning. Today was 23 spm, not 30. My bad and yeah, I wish I had that fitness level also.

David
Age: 40
6ft.
195lbs
2k: 6:50.2 - 2017 Yeah, I count the tenths on this one.
5K: 18:07.1 - 2020
6K: 23:28 - 2015
10K: 36:57 - 2020
HM: 1:22:48 - 2017
30 Min: 7937 - 2017
60 Min: 15625 - 2020
FM: 2:58:19.3 -2020
50k 3:38:44 - 2020
100k 7:29:15 - 2020

RayOfSunshine
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by RayOfSunshine » May 19th, 2018, 3:07 am

:lol:
jbhop5857 wrote:Oh my god, I'm so sorry. I was thinking about my sprints in the morning. Today was 23 spm, not 30. My bad and yeah, I wish I had that fitness level also.

David
:lol:

Given your PBs, I was picturing you sliding up and back without significant leg drive. :lol:
Male, January 1971
Neptune Beach, FL
on way back to LWT

jbhop5857
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jbhop5857 » May 19th, 2018, 4:37 pm

Good Day,
Well, today was the over 30 spm day.

Cycle 1/ Week 1/ Day 5
8x500 with 3:30R and >30spm

05/19/18
1 146
2 146
3 146
4 146
5 146
6 146
7 146
8 137.5

Avg 144.9

Felt pretty good and I love that the average was under 1:45, even if just barely.
Looking forward to a nice steady UT2 row for Sunday.

Have a great night.

David
Age: 40
6ft.
195lbs
2k: 6:50.2 - 2017 Yeah, I count the tenths on this one.
5K: 18:07.1 - 2020
6K: 23:28 - 2015
10K: 36:57 - 2020
HM: 1:22:48 - 2017
30 Min: 7937 - 2017
60 Min: 15625 - 2020
FM: 2:58:19.3 -2020
50k 3:38:44 - 2020
100k 7:29:15 - 2020

Street
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Location: Liverpool

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Street » May 19th, 2018, 8:25 pm

jbhop5857 wrote:Good Day,
Well, today was the over 30 spm day.

Cycle 1/ Week 1/ Day 5
8x500 with 3:30R and >30spm

05/19/18
1 146
2 146
3 146
4 146
5 146
6 146
7 146
8 137.5

Avg 144.9

Felt pretty good and I love that the average was under 1:45, even if just barely.
Looking forward to a nice steady UT2 row for Sunday.

Have a great night.

David
Good work.. You smashed that one! :D I really struggle doing over 30spm on those.

jbhop5857
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by jbhop5857 » May 19th, 2018, 9:37 pm

@street, thanks man. I find, for the shorter distances I am able to create a kind of recoil that I can speed up over the 500. But boy, does it hurt the legs. I get in the habit on longer rows of using too much upper body.

David
Age: 40
6ft.
195lbs
2k: 6:50.2 - 2017 Yeah, I count the tenths on this one.
5K: 18:07.1 - 2020
6K: 23:28 - 2015
10K: 36:57 - 2020
HM: 1:22:48 - 2017
30 Min: 7937 - 2017
60 Min: 15625 - 2020
FM: 2:58:19.3 -2020
50k 3:38:44 - 2020
100k 7:29:15 - 2020

bob01
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Joined: February 7th, 2018, 10:59 am

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by bob01 » May 20th, 2018, 2:47 am

Hi. Using the force graph can be great for solving/ identifying most stroke issues....in this instance one will be able see if there are any leg arm balance issues

warnie
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Location: Wales UK

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by warnie » May 20th, 2018, 6:19 am

Finished week 3 of BPP yesterday, day off training totally today so really enjoying!!! Last session of the week felt good. Been struggling all week with sore throat and breathing, first few minutes were killers trying to get breathing in check and not coughing. A few months ago I would have not bothered so pleased I got 4 sessions out this week. Season best 5k so progression is continuing. Onwards and upwards!

BPP 3.4 5000 22:27.6 23 SPM

Looking forward to the start of week four tomorrow!

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