How Do I Gain Weight?

[old] paulcx · Post by **[old] paulcx** » July 17th, 2004, 11:51 pm

Hi, I am an avid rower and also weightlifer and i am trying to but some beef on my pathetic small frame. I am 6 ft and weight about 170 lbs. I want muscle thought and not fat. Can someone please help me out with how to gain some muscle. What should i be eating that is semi-normal food and should I be taking any of those food mixes that are in the health food store that have steroid junkies on the bottles? I know this will upset all of those people in here that are trying to loose weight....sorry ANY help would be great. I am sure that someone somwhere can help m with this. Cheers

[old] remador · Post by **[old] remador** » July 18th, 2004, 7:03 am

Hello, Paul! I think that, to achieve your purpose, you should not run or make low-intensity/long workouts on your erg. You said you are doing weight training; that's fine to gain weight, mostly if you work around 65%-80% of max. strength. While rowing, on the other hand, you should do some pieces that push up your anaerobic resistance (like sets of 30'', maximal strength, with active recovery bewteen sets). If you want to work your aerobic resistance, make sure you choose a workout that allows you to keep your strength output for at least 65% of max. until its end. Keep rowing, AM

[old] Canoeist · Post by **[old] Canoeist** » July 19th, 2004, 10:20 am

Most people that are 170 pounds are trying to lose five pounds so that they will qualify as a lightweight. They don't care how they look. I am way too heavy (210 pounds) to ever qualify as a lightweight. So I am trying to gain some more muscle mass so that I can compete better with the big boys (230 pounds). I have found out that gaining muscle mass at the age of 48 is very hard, if not impossible, for someone who is naturally thin. From what I have read, you should do maximum resistance workouts at least two times a week. Three workouts per week is probably best. The workouts should be 3 sets of 8 maximum force reps of each mucle group that you are trying to grow. I used the Dyno since works the same muscles as in rowing, but it doesn't have the dangers associated with free weights. But free weights and machines with fixed weights are more commonly available in gyms. I was advised to take Creatine 15 minutes before workouts and to drink protien drinks afterwards. I gained maybe 5 pounds after several months of weights and pretty much gave up. My times weren't any faster, so the extra weight may have been just water retention or a fuller belly. Cheers, Paul Flack

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » July 19th, 2004, 11:53 am

Paul-- If you were to compare yourself to the heavyweight men who made this year's US Olympic team, you would find that you're heavier than many of them. <a href='http://www.usrowing.org/itemdisplay.asp?id=1352' target='_blank'>http://www.usrowing.org/itemdisplay.asp ... br> Tom Rawls

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 19th, 2004, 3:55 pm

Hey guys - gaining weight = eat more than you burn. However, you want to eat quality food, not junk. Heavy on the complex carbs (oats, cereals, whole grain breads, sweet potatoes, brown rice) and lean meats, light on the fats (flax oil, unsalted nuts, and natural peanut butter are great choices) . The basics: 3g carb/# bodyweight , 1.5g-2g protein/# bodyweight, .4g-.5g fats/# bodyweight In the gym: heavy, compound movements with big weight. Aim for at least 4 reps with good form and no more than 8 reps. Spotted reps don't count as a real rep. Once you can hit 8 it's time to up the weight. No machines if possible, no unilateral movements, no isolation work. Heavy, basic, and brutal should be your mantra. If you row, go ahead, but make sure you hit the "calories burned" button at the end and figure out a way to get that amount of calories as an extra meal before you go to bed. CV exercise is anathema to bulking up. You can't have it both ways unless you're on 'roids. You want as many calories as possible going toward recovery and growth. Rowing training is pretty contrary to most generally accepted precepts of bulking up. You get big outside of the gym, in the bed and in the *** DELETE - SPAM ***, primarily. Keep your sessions short and intense, the weight heavy, the volume low, eat like a horse, and sleep like a baby and you'll put on weight big time. good luck, D

[old] Ralph Earle · Post by **[old] Ralph Earle** » July 20th, 2004, 3:31 am

The logic of H.I.T. is persuasive; I converted this weekend. One Q, however, Diesel: Why do you feel so strongly about free weights vs. machines? Granted, were I 31, not 61, I would use free weights, but machines do have the advantages of: A) targeting task-specific muscles;

not being constrained by your weakest link; and, C) reassuring you that, if anything breaks, it's likely to be at most one body part. (Nonetheless, I must be a believer, since I like to end my weight sessions with snatches.)

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 20th, 2004, 2:12 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The logic of H.I.T. is persuasive; I converted this weekend. </td></tr></table> what variant of H.I.T. converted you? Is it the Mike Mentzer "Heavy Duty" style (which is flawed) or is more like the kind I'm advocating? (Obviously fishing for comments to keep the thread going!) <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> One Q, however, Diesel: Why do you feel so strongly about free weights vs. machines? </td></tr></table> Free weights stimulate the muscles much more effectively and completely than machines. Free weights also allow you to use your body's natural biomechanics and you are not constrained to the arc of a machine. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Granted, were I 31, not 61, I would use free weights, but machines do have the advantages of: A) targeting task-specific muscles;  </td></tr></table> yes, they do, but normally in the context of isolation. Part of the rub of the effective of free weights is the balancing involved. That strengthens the smaller assistance muscles and keeps you from creating muscular imbalances. Age is no excuse!! If you're concerned about injury, no one is saying you need to go all-out like a young Schwarzenegger, just lift what you can comfortably handle. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> not being constrained by your weakest link;  </td></tr></table> that's what free weight training aims to remedy. For example, if your bench stinks because you have weak triceps, then working on a machine that does the balancing for you robs the triceps of that much needed extra stimulation that the triceps need to catch up to be able to execute the movement. The machine's very design serves to let the triceps off the hook, so to speak, so yes your chest gets hit, but the assisting muscles, in this case the front delts and tris get neglected. All in all, not the most efficient way to train. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> and, C) reassuring you that, if anything breaks, it's likely to be at most one body part. </td></tr></table> Unless you decide to go crazy and try to do one-rep maxes all the time, chances are you'll be OK. Usually when people get hurt lifting, it's due to poor/sloppy technique because they are lifting more with their ego than with their limitations in mind. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> (Nonetheless, I must be a believer, since I like to end my weight sessions with snatches.) </td></tr></table> snatches are pretty vicious. All rowers can benefit from incorporating olympic lifts into their routines. They are particularly brutal done in circuit form. take care, D

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » July 20th, 2004, 4:56 pm

Diesel wrote: "CV exercise is anathema to bulking up" What is erging, if not CV exercise? I get the idea of improving strength and the use of weights for that purpose. I suspect that working on the erg at low rates and a high drag is probably as useful as lifting. I don't get the idea of buik, which insofar as I can tell is of no use in an endurance sport--rather is likely to be a hindrance. Yes, you've got to generate power, but for 6+, even 7+, minutes. In a tight race, during the last 500 meters, what do you want, endurance or beach muscles? Tom Rawls

[old] Ralph Earle · Post by **[old] Ralph Earle** » July 20th, 2004, 5:30 pm

DIESEL, Yes, it is Mike Metzner's program. What flaw do you see? At first glance, you seemed to be advocating the same thing -- one set, 4-8 reps to failure. Do you advocate more than two sessions per week? I agree that free weights are preferable, for the reasons you cite, but there appears to be a contradiction between "heavy, basic, and brutal" and "just lift what you can comfortably handle." I suppose the answer is always to have a spotter, and save the machines for when you don't have one. Clarification: I said I end sessions with snatches. I should have said cleans. I sometimes do one-armed snatches, but it's just to show off. -Ralph

[old] paulcx · Post by **[old] paulcx** » July 20th, 2004, 11:22 pm

Thanks everyone for your replies, For the most part they have been straight forward and less confusing that I thought that some might have been. I agree that free weights are better. You get more range and it forces you to do the excersize properly while u can cheat a lot more on machines. Obviously there are certain excersizes that are made that much easier with machines. I am still interested in what people eat though to gain weight say someones diet for a day or two. I have been chowing down on the cottage cheese and tuna lately. Creatine seems as a dangerous semi-roid, what do people use as an after workout drink? Any homemade remedies or just store bought stuff? Thanks everyone for your replies so far. I do think though that the more weight you have that is muscle will make your muscles last longer, and also LOWER your splits, for instance look at Lance Armstongs legs right now they are huge and because of that he is going to win his 6th yellow jersey.

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 21st, 2004, 11:49 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Diesel wrote: "CV exercise is anathema to bulking up" What is erging, if not CV exercise? </td></tr></table> Erging is perhaps the mother of all CV exercises (except for my XC skiing)! However, I wrote that in the context of the question that kicked off this discussion. "How do I gain weight?" And my answer was that it will be difficult to bulk up if you are erging all the time unless you find a way to put in all the calories you are burning off on the erg. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I get the idea of improving strength and the use of weights for that purpose. I suspect that working on the erg at low rates and a high drag is probably as useful as lifting.  </td></tr></table> That's debatable. And you maybe right, but only as applied to the rowing stroke. However, for general overrall strength and muscular balance nothing beats working with free weights. In the context of the discussion "How do I gain weight" by which I understand "How do I gain lean muscle mass" you have to lift weights. Ideally, you have to lift heavy, using compound exercises like squats, deadlifts, and bench presses. Erging on low rate/high drag will not do that as efficiently. In fact, it may serve to promote sloppy technique (i.e. slow catches, excessive upper body involvement at the beginning of the stroke, etc..) <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I get the idea of buik, which insofar as I can tell is of no use in an endurance sport--rather is likely to be a hindrance. </td></tr></table> Well that all depends on your height, physical structure, and your genetic capacities. But I think it's safe to say that someone on the cusp of lightweight/heavyweight (say 170-180 lbs. at 6-6'2 and normal bodyfat levels -10-15%) would probably have to put on a good 10-15lbs. of lean mass to be more competitive in the heavy ranks where most of the really fast guys hover in the 200-220 range. Without the strength base, they just wouldn't be able to generate the raw horsepower you need to be fast. On the flip side, he would also have to be strong to be able to be competitive at the lightweight level if he were to drop down into the 160-165 level - but then you have to consider if a drop in twenty pounds would severely weaken him. In short, there are a lot of variables to consider. Also, remember that rowing does not penalize excess mass to the degree that other weight-bearing endurance sports do like cycling and running. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Yes, you've got to generate power, but for 6+, even 7+, minutes. In a tight race, during the last 500 meters, what do you want, endurance or beach muscles? </td></tr></table> I think it's quite possible to have both if you know what you're doing in the gym and in the *** DELETE - SPAM ***. Actually, I'm in the process of doing that as we speak. It's a theory, but I think the science behind it is sound. If you read my previous posts, I was an ex-rower turned powerlifter who is interested in rowing again now that I have the time to put in the extended erg sessions. I'm currently whittling down from the 260's to hopefully my old racing weight of about 215-220. (at 6'4") I'm calculating I'll get there by late October - mid November... However the difference is that while I was probably around 8-10% b.f. back in the day, I'll be closer to 5-6% b.f. at the same bodyweight this time around. So, we'll see how it goes... but I think it's only a matter of time.. I've got my plan, it's just a matter of patience and execution now. Take care, D

[old] TomR/the elder · Post by **[old] TomR/the elder** » July 21st, 2004, 12:04 pm

Diesel-- Good luck w/ the slimming regimen. Sounds like you've set yourself an ambitious target. Tom

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 21st, 2004, 12:37 pm

Hey Ralph, <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>DIESEL, Yes, it is Mike Metzner's program. What flaw do you see?  </td></tr></table> Mentzer is very controversial. Even from beyond the grave. There seems to be very little middle ground between him amongst the iron-head community. You either think he's a genius or you think he's a complete fraud. I personally am in the latter camp. 1. His theories only work as a plateau buster, once the body adapts to the "Heavy Duty" protocol your gains will cease. Once a week is just not enough stimulation - especially after you've been training for a while. 2. Mentzer was on a boatload of steroids, and his training journals from his competitive days, seem to suggest he didn't really follow "Heavy Duty' to the letter. His routines looked much like the training style I use, which is heavily influenced by the powerlifting circles. 3. Mentzer until his dying days was fanatical about his adherence to "Heavy Duty", with long winded allusions to Nietzsche and Ayn Rand, in short he aspired to mutate a scheme of reps and sets into a whole athleto-philosophical movement. The man was definitely a character! Go to www.t-mag.com and run a search on Mentzer or Heavy Duty and read the debates.. pretty informative stuff there.. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> At first glance, you seemed to be advocating the same thing -- one set, 4-8 reps to failure. Do you advocate more than two sessions per week?  </td></tr></table> Actually I do multiple work sets (the number depends on the size of the body part) but usually 4 for biceps up to 10 for back and quads. But yes, I normally stay in the 4-8 rep set range. It's the best for strength retention, and if you're eating enough calories for stimulating mass growth. I train each body part once a week, and am currently lifting 4x a week and erging 8x a week. When I was heavy into powerlifting/bodybuilding - I was lifting 5-6x week. Again, I repeat, one set, once a week, is not enough stimulation, after the initial shock of the new routine sets in and adaptation takes place. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I agree that free weights are preferable, for the reasons you cite, but there appears to be a contradiction between "heavy, basic, and brutal" and "just lift what you can comfortably handle."  </td></tr></table> Well I think I was answering to two different people there.. but yes you can still keep it basic and brutal and still use weight you can comfortably handle. What do I mean by comfortably handle? You shouldn't need a spotter! It's a crutch. If you need a spotter, you need to drop the weight. You're only fooling yourself. Think about it: if you have 315 on the bench and you need a spotter to take it out of the rack, or if you need a spotter to give you a touch to help you finish the lift, have you really benched 315? No. How much have you really benched? You have no clue because it becomes really difficult to accurately quantify how much assistance you received. That's why I go with the powerlifiting standard. If you can't handle the weight from start to finish of the movement, then you shouldn't be messing with it and drop the weight. Not only does this give you an objective measure of how strong you truly are, but it keeps you from getting injured. Remember don't be like 95% of all the people in the gym who lift with the ego (to impress the other meat-heads and the hottie in the spandex shorts) but with an eye to your limits. Just be consistent with your lifiting, train and eat smart, and the strength gains will come. It's inevitable. Trust me on this one. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I suppose the answer is always to have a spotter, and save the machines for when you don't have one. </td></tr></table> Nope. As I said above, spotters are a crutch. Machines for certain exercises (and only after you've done the basic work) or if you have a legit injury. <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Clarification: I said I end sessions with snatches. I should have said cleans. I sometimes do one-armed snatches, but it's just to show off. </td></tr></table> Cleans are vicious too !! It's still very good that you do them!! Take care, D

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 21st, 2004, 12:58 pm

I am still interested in what people eat though to gain weight say someones diet for a day or two. I have been chowing down on the cottage cheese and tuna lately.

Well, I'll see if I can dig up my last bulking diet and I'll post it here so you can get an idea of how much you have to eat. I caution you though, bulking is a highly individualized activity - you have basically treat your body like a science experiment, i.e. monitoring your intake, activity levels, training intensity, weight and the results you get (are you getting stronger? is the weight all fat?, etc..), so you can see if you have to up or decrease your total calories, or up or decrease one of the component macronutrients (carbs, fats, protein) which are largely based on genetic predispositions (i.e. somepeople need a lot of carbs to gain weight, others like myself turn into the Michelin man if I take in over 400g/carbs a day!) Use what I give you as a base, but the fine tuning is up to you.

Creatine seems as a dangerous semi-roid,

Creatine IS NOT A ROID. I have to emphasize that because it is the most common misconception about the supplement. Creatine is created by the body and is an excellent recovery aid. It basically accelerates the Krebs cycle in the muscle cells and accelerates the lactic acid flushing out post-workout. The only drawback is that you have to up your water intake.

what do people use as an after workout drink?

I use EAS Myoplex Deluxe mixed with ice, water, and half a banana, and something with glucose like Gatorade as soon as I get off the erg to stabilize my blood sugar levels. Wait about 15 minutes and slam the protein drink down. Whatever you do, don't buy your supps at the local GNC, you'll get ripped off! If you're interested I'll give you some good links.

Any homemade remedies or just store bought stuff?
 Unfortunately, the premixed powders are the best. It's kind of hard to find natural foods that pack 50g of protein and 27g carbs with only 2g fat along with a zillion vitamins, minerals, and amino acids into a 400 calorie protein drink. Liquid nutrition is the business post workout. Easy on the stomach, goes right into the muscle. Consider that your body is like this huge anabolic sponge for about 3 hours post weight work or intense erg session. 
 I do think though that the more weight you have that is muscle will make your muscles last longer, and also LOWER your splits, for instance look at Lance Armstongs legs right now they are huge and because of that he is going to win his 6th yellow jersey.

pretty much on the money. Lance Armstrong is the man. A true hammer, if there ever was one. Can you imagine if he was tall enough to be a rower? That would be scary. take care and good luck, D

[old] DIESEL · Post by **[old] DIESEL** » July 21st, 2004, 1:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Diesel-- Good luck w/ the slimming regimen. Sounds like you've set yourself an ambitious target. Tom </td></tr></table> Thanks, Tom! I'll need it! Actually, it's turning out to be much more fun than I anticipated. Are we erg-jockeys gluttons for punishment or what? But I take a lot of motivation from what a lot of the other posters on this forum are doing, so that helps too. Keep up the work on your end too! Thanks again, D

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