Leg Drive

[old] Cran · Post by **[old] Cran** » June 25th, 2004, 6:51 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I think Cran, on this forum, has rated quite high for his distance PB's. He might want to comment on this -- or then, he might want to not comment on this. </td></tr></table> Yeah, I rated quite high: 2K - 42SPM - 6:35.0 = 7.33m/stroke 5K - 38SPM - 17:16.8 = 7.61m/stroke 10K - 35SPM - 35:35.9 = 8.02m/stroke but in training I mostly do 20/22spm or 26/28spm Typical 30 min sessions at the moment are 20/22spm @ 1:54 =13.16m/stroke 26/28spm @ 1:50 =10.49m/stroke For 60 min sessions I'll be about 3 secs/500 slower. If I'm doing PB attempts or intervals I will rate higher, but that is not often, only last 3-4 weeks before races. Most of my training is low spm even though I rate high when I race. I've forgotten what SPI is... Still don't see the point behind 10m/stroke... it's way to easy at low spm and way too hard at high spm...

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 25th, 2004, 9:05 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Still don't see the point behind 10m/stroke... it's way to easy at low spm and way too hard at high spm...  </td></tr></table> Cran-- Agreed. Much less _8_ m/stroke (or as in the case of your 2K, 7). ranger

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » July 1st, 2004, 5:39 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jun 20 2004, 12:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> George-- 12.1 SPI at 36 spm is a 6:12 2K. ranger  </td></tr></table> Managed 30min @ 20spm this evening 8100m 255w 12.75 SPI .... and quite happy with the effort. The most noticable aspect was the difference in power generated between a good stroke and a bad one .

[old] Ash · Post by **[old] Ash** » July 1st, 2004, 11:50 am

George, I like that session especially for that reason, as it is a fairly hard effort you can see the changes in power (I always have it on Watts display) when altering your stroke even a little or losing concentration for a fraction of a second. The differnce may only be a watt or two but you can see the difference when you prepare well for the catch, take it smoothly and lock on early, the stroke just seems to flow and seems easier. Doing a hard HM rate capped at 20 spm you can really feel the difference in effort for the same pace as you became more fatigued and the stroke deteriorates. I am doing an hour at 22 spm today hoping for around 1:51 Av, I expect it to be difficult!!

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » July 1st, 2004, 12:10 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (GeorgeD @ Jul 1 2004, 04:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jun 20 2004, 12:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> George-- 12.1 SPI at 36 spm is a 6:12 2K. ranger  </td></tr></table> Managed 30min @ 20spm this evening 8100m 255w 12.75 SPI .... and quite happy with the effort. The most noticable aspect was the difference in power generated between a good stroke and a bad one . </td></tr></table> Nice row, George. Given your 2K, 12.75 SPI is Wolverine Plan Level 4 power. I have always thought that the ideal would be to be able to do 10K at 22 spm at this power. I tried to get to this level last year but kept falling a bit short. I will try again this year. For variety, you might want to try some of Caviston's 10' sequences. The ultimate/last sequence is really nice (what Caviston calls a 220): 4' at 1:52 and 20 spm 3' at 1:48 and 22 spm 2' at 1:44 and 24 spm 1' at 1:40 and 26 spm In a session, Caviston recommends 4 x 10' (so just about 10K of hard rowing altogether) with some comfortable rest inbetween (3:30?) for these final sequences. The other version of the 220 is this: 1' at 1:56 and 18 spm 2' at 1:52 and 20 spm 3' at 1:48 and 22 spm 4' at 1:44 and 24 spm Last fall, I used these sequences as part of my final preparation for races. ranger

[old] seat5 · Post by **[old] seat5** » July 1st, 2004, 10:32 pm

I've been reading this forum and wondering for quite a while what SPI is, and now that I see Cran can't remember what it is, either, I thought I'd ask. So what is SPI, anyway? I mostly train at S10MPS. When I decide to take a break from staring at the monitor and working on sticking to 10, I find it very natural to settle in at 11MPS--or close to it, and that my 500 meter pace also picks up (so that must mean I'm not slowing down the rate to compensate for the extra power.) I only let myself do it for a short while because I usually don't think I can keep it up for the whole workout. I always wonder, though, if I should just do what feels the best. My stroke feels much more flowing, strong, natural and comfortable at 11MPS and more jerky and broken up at 10. When I first got my machine I discovered I was only doing about 8MPS and too high a rate (with straps on all the time, as well). It was hard at first to get 10. Now I feel like I'm fighting with myself to stay at 10. What do you guys think? Carla

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » July 2nd, 2004, 12:53 am

The SPI refers to Energy (Joules) per stroke. Power = Energy (Joules) per stroke divided by Time = Watts.

[old] Cran · Post by **[old] Cran** » July 2nd, 2004, 4:47 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The SPI refers to Energy (Joules) per stroke. Power = Energy (Joules) per stroke divided by Time = Watts.  </td></tr></table> hmmm... ok... thanks John... that's now as clear as mud... How do we calculate it? is it watts / spm or something?

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » July 2nd, 2004, 4:56 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Cran @ Jul 2 2004, 03:47 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The SPI refers to Energy (Joules) per stroke. Power = Energy (Joules) per stroke divided by Time = Watts.  </td></tr></table> hmmm... ok... thanks John... that's now as clear as mud... How do we calculate it? is it watts / spm or something? </td></tr></table> Yep. ranger

[old] Karl1234 · Post by **[old] Karl1234** » July 13th, 2004, 9:25 am

Ranger, I have been adopting much of your advice in the last couple of weeks. I am now rowing strapless at 20-22spm and watching my watts and thus my SPI. I was wondering to what extent you watch your HR doing, for example, Wolverine Plan 208s. I just started them. After an hour of 10.5 SPI, I'm pretty tired and the HR is nice and high. This conflicts with my preconception of 60min training as being in a lower HR zone. I think today, after my first 30 min peice, my HR was 85%+ of max. I am a little scared of the effort level required for this 208^ and 208, as well as the >208s, but I think I can pull it off. But do you unrestrict your HR?

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » July 14th, 2004, 6:40 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Karl1234 @ Jul 13 2004, 08:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ranger, I have been adopting much of your advice in the last couple of weeks. I am now rowing strapless at 20-22spm and watching my watts and thus my SPI. I was wondering to what extent you watch your HR doing, for example, Wolverine Plan 208s. I just started them. After an hour of 10.5 SPI, I'm pretty tired and the HR is nice and high. This conflicts with my preconception of 60min training as being in a lower HR zone. I think today, after my first 30 min peice, my HR was 85%+ of max. I am a little scared of the effort level required for this 208^ and 208, as well as the >208s, but I think I can pull it off. But do you unrestrict your HR? </td></tr></table> Karl-- As in all training, you need to make good judgments about how much work you can do from day to day, given your life experience with hard physical work, your present fitness base, your available time and energy, your lifestyle, your present level of rowing, your present rowing goals, and many other matters. I don't think that strapless, low drag low rate rowing is any different from any other sort of training on this matter. My personal situation is unusual. I am a world record holder and therefore I row pretty close to the edges of performance most of the time. I am also in my second year now of trying to lower my world record, despite my continued aging. So I am pretty much pulling out all of the stops. This is just my choice, though. No need for you to work this hard in order to row strapless at low rates and drag. If you are afraid that the work is too hard, just lower the rate. No, I don't restrict anything at all when I row--heartrate, pace, distance, etc. Despite the strain, I have been rowing near the edges of my ability every day, often to repeated failure. Then again, at points in my rows, I have been pushing the rate up toward 30 spm at times to work on power and technique. I don't worry about it, though. I seem to be recovering fine from day to day. If my heart rate maxes out, I just take a short break and then start again. No problem. Yes, rowing at 2K SPI (or above) and 22 spm is _very_ hard work. Wolverine Plan Level 4 208s are are even more challenging, given the SPI is 2K + 2. As I have mentioned in my posts, I would do a lot of off season rowing at 2K SPI before I took on the Wolverine Plan. Use the Wolverine Plan Level 4 rowing during the racing season for sharpening (along with hard rowing at Levels 1 and 2). Good luck! ranger P.S. Why should work on endurance and power be easy? I do lots of easy cross training for relaxation and conditioning. When I row, I row hard.

[old] mileypau · Post by **[old] mileypau** » July 22nd, 2004, 11:43 am

Hi Ranger, we 'spoke' once before on UK board. V useful advice on slow it down and strapless etc. Thanks for that. I am now doing lots of longer slow SPM stuff 18 to 23 spm and managing 11.5 to 12 metres per stroke (mps). I am not going for PBs at the moment but am matching old PB times at 6 to 8 fewer SPM. Will be interesting when I start to put the SPMs back up whether I can hold the metres per stroke. Sorry US site that's meters per stroke. Anyhow I now see lots of reference to power and SPI. Sorry what is SPI?? How is it calculated? I'm used to watching the spm and time/500m numbers, but never the watts stuff. How do I use that information? NOW ANSWERED UNDER 1000m THREAD....THANKS Also I have had for the first time some backache (low down).....never had it when I was on higher stroke rates. I guess it is the higher force/power (or whatever the right term is) per stroke? Did you get any aches when you changed your stroke? Paul

[old] Karl1234 · Post by **[old] Karl1234** » July 23rd, 2004, 7:54 am

Hi mileypau, I started rowing again about 6 weeks ago, and quickly got into the SPI game and low spm. If you look around the board you will find lots of posts about it. I have the drag set at 120 and am aiming at 10.5 spi. The whole point is that there is no higher stroke power, but rather that it is consistant regardless what your rate it. This you are pulling just as hard at 20 spm as 24 spm, or that's how I understand it. I am still working on getting a consistant stroke and in the tranistion between rates, trying to keep the drive identical but adjust the recovering. Because I was just starting and as my stroke is so new and thus dynamic, I didn't have any aches or anything like you are saying. It sounds like maybe you have a heavy drag setting. Karl ps. Ranger, thanks for the last post. I realized that the 208s are at 2k +2, so Now I am looking at the Plan to make my rows more interesting. I pull 2k spi and use his fartleks (I think they are). That way 60 minutes can be even a bit interesting. Certainly my 45 minutes at 20 spm was very boring and hard compared to the 50 minutes of 208^ at 2k spi, which was 3 seconds faster than todays row.

[old] mileypau · Post by **[old] mileypau** » July 23rd, 2004, 8:20 am

thanks Karl, when I started I was the classic newbie pulling on 10. I've dropped down to 5 now (thats 150 on my machine) and will go lower now having read some of these posts. Suspect that is the back ache cause...... Paul

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