Leg Drive

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 19th, 2004, 7:09 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I tried a 12k today at my hoped for 2k SPI today which called for me to row at about 1:54/55 at 19SPM. I found this pretty tough going and WAS rowing in water by the end of it. I dont know if I could cope rowing at this effort day after day for my distance work.  </td></tr></table> George-- You are rowing at 12.1 SPI. Perhaps this is too much power for you at this moment. Your 2K is 6:30. At 36 spm, this is 10.5 SPI, not 12.1. At 19 spm, 10.5 SPI is about 2:01 pace, not 1:55. Or you could row 1:55 at 22 spm rather than 19 spm. That is also 10.5 SPI. Better would be to row the 1:55 at 22 spm strapless. ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 19th, 2004, 8:26 am

George-- 12.1 SPI at 36 spm is a 6:12 2K. ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 19th, 2004, 8:32 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (John Rupp @ Jun 18 2004, 02:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Ebbesen's 8 meters per stroke gives you these rates and paces: 42 spm / 1:29.3 40 spm / 1:33.8 38 spm / 1:38.7 36 spm / 1:44.2 34 spm / 1:50.3 32 spm / 1:57.2 30 spm / 2:05.0 </td></tr></table> John-- If Eskild habitually rows 2:05 pace at 30 spm, I'll eat my shorts! Given his strength and technical expertise in rowing, to row 2:05 pace at 30 spm, Eskild would have to row with one arm behind his back and have at least one leg in a cast! Most of the other rates and paces you list would also be absurd for Eskild. 1:50 at 34 spm? Absurd. ranger

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » June 19th, 2004, 2:14 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Rowing at 2K power all of the time gets you used to the power.  </td></tr></table> I agree with that. Since you're mostly rowing at 1:50 pace now, does this mean you've slowed down to 1:50 pace for the 2k? If so, and you keep training the same way, I'll soon be kicking your butt!!

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » June 19th, 2004, 2:18 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Most of the other rates and paces you list would also be absurd for Eskild.  </td></tr></table> Check out the video of Ebbesen's 6:06.4 a few months ago. You're welcome to count the strokes, i.e. 8 meters per stroke and 40.9 strokes per minute. Get ready to eat your shorts!

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » June 19th, 2004, 6:10 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jun 19 2004, 11:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Your 2K is 6:30. At 36 spm, this is 10.5 SPI, not 12.1. ranger </td></tr></table> My 6:30 was at 32 which is an SPI of 11.8 and my thought was that if I have this power now I would want to be training at my 'goal' power not my current. So If I set a target of 6:25 at say 33spm it is still a SPI of nearly 11.9 and at 20spm that is approx 1:53 pace. I think the answer is not to make my life easier by lowering the goals but to work harder and smarter to achieve them. ps On experience to date I dont see myself rating 36 for a 2k in fact I feel 34 would be stretching it.

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » June 19th, 2004, 8:54 pm

Managed 12k @ 1:53.8 @ 20SPM SPI of 11.88 so closer to target than yesterday, but still a load of sweat. Some periods were smooth and controlled and some 'barked like a dog' and I know which ones worked..... just have to workout the whys in my technique and only time will do that.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » June 19th, 2004, 9:29 pm

George, Is 1:53 your goal for the 2k? With a 1:23 500 meters, I thought you would be faster than that.

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » June 20th, 2004, 4:05 am

John do I detect a note of sarcasm My short term goal come September 11th is 6:24.9 or less. I must confess to suffering a fair amount of confusion over this SPI training. I know I have low end power that is eveidenced by my 500 and I believe I could row a sub (not by much) 3min 1k at the present so my need is for endurance. Reflecting on todays session it was definitely 'hard' work and it will over time make me stronger physically but that does not seem to be my problem. I worked hard and was soaked from the effort at the end but and it is a big BUT I do not feel like I stressed either my aerobic system or that I really escalated my HR and that is probably what I need. I have 3 weeks more soley endurance work before I am off for a week on a family holiday then I have 7 weeks with intensity building via Intervals to my race. I really want to make these next 3 weeks count and be exhausted by the end of them. Edited PS I am also looking long term as I have to believe that given improvement my current 500 and 1k times would indicate that sometime next year I have to be aiming for 6:15 as I feel I have more to be found.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 24th, 2004, 7:18 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Reflecting on todays session it was definitely 'hard' work and it will over time make me stronger physically but that does not seem to be my problem. I worked hard and was soaked from the effort at the end but and it is a big BUT [dry.gif] I do not feel like I stressed either my aerobic system or that I really escalated my HR and that is probably what I need. </td></tr></table> George-- Come on. This is a no-brainer. If you want more aerobic stress, then just raise the stroke rate. Row at 11.8 SPI and 22 spm (or 24 spm, or 26 spm, or whatever stresses your aerobic capacity in some satisfying way). You should be _delighted_ if you can row above 20 spm at 2K SPI for 12-15K. But yikes, if it is too easy, just make it harder! Raise the rate. Lately, I have been starting at 20 spm and 2K SPI and then working toward 26 spm (or so) and 2K SPI over the course of 15K. That gets your heart racing! By the way, I don't hear any mention that you are rowing strapless. If you row strapless, the benefit will be much greater. ranger

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » June 24th, 2004, 9:06 pm

yup anything up to about 26spm is done strapless

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 25th, 2004, 4:39 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (GeorgeD @ Jun 24 2004, 08:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> yup anything up to about 26spm is done strapless </td></tr></table> George-- Good stuff, then. Personally, with the low spm strapless rowing, I like 22-24 spm. Not sure why. I suppose this is just the point where I feel that I am balancing 2K stroking power and enough stress on my aerobic system to recover from day to day (at the moment) if I am rowing about 15K. Ideally, I would like to push this to 26 spm, but I just don't seem to be there yet. No problem. I am happy to wait for the training to do its work. I also like to work on aerobic capacity by cross-training. Given that the summer has finally arrived, I am now running and biking in addition to skipping. The cross-training makes you feel great. Then the rowing sessions can be used more exclusively for working on stroking power. I think that any of these activities (biking, running, skipping) done for an hour or two is great for aerobic capacity and general endurance. During the racing season, I do two hour stepping routines in the afternoon, at about 270 watts. Good stuff, too. By the way, you seem to be dismissing the possibility of rowing at higher stroke rates for the 2K. I am not sure that you should jump to conclusions on this. At a given stroking power, you get about 3 seconds for every additional spm. At 11 SPI, a 2K at 36 spm is 6:24; at 38 spm, 6:17; at 40 spm, 6:11, at 42 spm, 6:05. ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 25th, 2004, 4:50 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I know I have low end power that is eveidenced by my 500 and I believe I could row a sub (not by much) 3min 1k at the present so my need is for endurance. </td></tr></table> George-- IMHO, "endurance" in rowing is largely a product of the muscular and mental facilitation to a certain stroking power. With this facilitation comes a feeling of relaxation and ease ("effortlessness"), and with this feeling of relaxation and ease (if practiced repeatedly over sufficiently long distances) comes endurance in the 2K. Yes, it takes a lot of sweating to achieve this facilitation/efficiency to stroking at high powers (e.g., 11.8 SPI). But what the heck, it feels good to get a little sweat rolling. Time flies when you are having fun. ranger

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » June 25th, 2004, 5:04 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jun 25 2004, 08:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> By the way, you seem to be dismissing the possibility of rowing at higher stroke rates for the 2K.  </td></tr></table> Not dismissing in a dismissive way, but genuinely doubting my ability to be able to do so, probably out of fear of blowing up. My limited experience has taught me that I can hide my failings to a certain extent in slower rates and 'muscleing' the pace ... I am nervous about going the other way.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 25th, 2004, 6:43 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (GeorgeD @ Jun 25 2004, 04:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jun 25 2004, 08:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> By the way, you seem to be dismissing the possibility of rowing at higher stroke rates for the 2K.  </td></tr></table> Not dismissing in a dismissive way, but genuinely doubting my ability to be able to do so, probably out of fear of blowing up. My limited experience has taught me that I can hide my failings to a certain extent in slower rates and 'muscleing' the pace ... I am nervous about going the other way.  </td></tr></table> George-- There shouldn't be any great uncertainty about racing at a high rate. I agree entirely that you don't want to try this now. To raise the rate, you would have to practice rowing at a higher rate in your training. If you did so successfully, however, there is no reason that you couldn't succeed in a race, too. Your training will tell you what is possible for you in a race. I am just suggesting that you might still consider working toward this goal. ranger

Concept2 Forum

Leg Drive

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training

Training