N.a.t.e. (it's Not About The Erg) Team

[old] Citroen · Post by **[old] Citroen** » January 8th, 2006, 4:04 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(mmracing @ Jan 8 2006, 07:53 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Question: what kind of gloves do you all wear? I'm using generic weight lifting gloves, but the padding may be causing blisters on my palm. Any suggestions? </td></tr></table> This should be in the FAQs. Most of us just rough it out with bare hands. The blisters toughen up after the first million metres. The hard question is whether to leave them or burst them. (I'm also told that urine can be used to toughen the hands, but I've not tried that.) C2 UK do these <a href='http://www.concept2.co.uk/shop/hand_pads.php' target='_blank'>http://www.concept2.co.uk/shop/hand_pads.php</a> for the folks who need some protection. The ladies on the Ducks team (or Grams or someone) were talking about using "toddler socks" on the handle. Not knowing what a "toddler sock" is I couldn't comment on their effectiveness.

[old] grams · Post by **[old] grams** » January 8th, 2006, 8:22 pm

2 Million Gene! Time to start your awards collection. I'm going for 3 glasses. I use the one I have to drink water during the day. I use my marathon mug to have a beer at night. Then at 5 million a long-sleeved shirt. I wear my 1 mil tshirt all the time. All this to give myself kudos for achieving the targets I have set for myself. Makes me feel good. Erika, hang in there. Keep healthy for your dad's sake so he doesn't worry about you..., parents are like that. Toddler socks-tiny socks that would fit over the handle grips without slipping around like normal sized ones. I don't use gloves. I have callouses, but not too large. The main thing is not to grip the handle too tightly. That creates a lot of friction and slippage on your tender hand parts. I put a dab of 1% cortisone first aid creme on any body parts that seem irritated after a session, including pato of my hands. It helps with the inflammation. 12,000 meters today. Yesterday was 'togetherness day' so I goofed off with my husband having a long lunch at a cozy French restaurant overlooking Puget Sound. The rain was beating at the windows and we were nice and warm. (21 straight days of rain here so far) grams today's tunes: Roy Orbison's Black & White Nights, and Jethro Tull I like Enter the Haggis too

[old] cwcesario · Post by **[old] cwcesario** » January 8th, 2006, 8:55 pm

Thanks for the insights of a 'millionaire', Grams, you are inspiring! It's funny but true that the small things are motivators, I like hearing about your mug/glass designation. [That cozy lunch sounds pretty terrific, too!] I'm hankering for the HC t shirt about now! Weightlifting gloves helped me a few times during the HC when I started getting blisters UNDER the calluses and wanted to keep going. Some biking gloves are made of lighter, smoother leather, but mine hit the dust ages ago. I found that rowing with the gloves did give a different set of calluses, though. I prefer bare hands. I second Grams' advice about gripping loosely - a relaxed grip is best. This is true for martial arts weapons training, where the goal is to extend your energy through the weapon you are holding. A relaxed grip prevents fatigue as well as benefitting response time (and it's better for the heart rate, too!). Seems like it all gets back to using the core and having good form. Citroen, thanks for your input, it's great to have your veteran opinion! I wonder if only the moms among us are the ones who would get the 'toddler sock' idea?! BTW, how do guys like Taff team's top rower DO 400K in so few days? (Trying not to be incredulous here, but a novice like me with a FT job and parenting and all can't quite fathom this!) Hope you west coasters aren't too soggy. We're seriously rather balmy here with temps in the high 20's and a new layer of snow. take care everyone, Crane PS Thanks for the music update grams, Roy Orbison is great. I had a dose of Elvis along with Enter the Haggis and Santana (Shaman) today.

[old] mmracing · Post by **[old] mmracing** » January 8th, 2006, 9:15 pm

Need help with times... I don't understand how everyone is getting such good times. I'm 34, 180 pounds and not totally out of shape. I need to lose 15 pounds, but I'm not even close to others my age. I just rowed 10K with the damper setting at 5 and I'm rowing at 37 strokes per minute on average. I have a steady none stoping stroke and when I slide forward the seat rollers hit the top and I push back. My heart rate was 32 minutes in the zone (160 - 190 bpm). My time was 52:12.9 Any help would be appreciated.

[old] woolsmith · Post by **[old] woolsmith** » January 8th, 2006, 9:32 pm

Hey Crane! I had to laugh at the toddler sock idea at first, too! Never having any children myself, I wasn't quite sure what they would be, but I found some nice 99% cotton, Fisher-Price ones at a discount store and got some. The heels even fit right where the bend happens on the Model D handles, like it was all meant to be! I use them towards the last 1/4 of a long row to help absorb some sweat. I found with them that I still get some blisters, but instead of on the fingers themselves, the blisters form at the crease where the fingers join the palm. I've been doing a more relaxed grip, kind of "hooking" my fingers over the bar instead of gripping it, and that seems to help. My thumbs rest on top of the bar. I must still be moving my left hand more than my right, because I don't get very much blistering or callous formation on my right hand at all. I'm right-handed, so maybe my right hand has a stronger grip? Not sure what I'm doing to make the difference. Anyone have any suggestions? Dougie gives good advice--I like reading his posts. (He paid me to say that! ) Naw, seriously, he presents good, concise info with just the right injection of humor. Thanks, Dougie! --Jen in WI

[old] cwcesario · Post by **[old] cwcesario** » January 8th, 2006, 9:37 pm

Hey Todd, I'm replying but can't be much help, sorry in advance for a redirect, but at least it's a quick reply! You might want to check on some of the other parts of the forum too, like FAQ. There are also lists of times in ranking, I found it very informative to see where my times fell in comparison to women my age, although there's not a lot of other info to base comparisons. Also consider nonathon site (see grams post) for comps. I'm a novice (started 11/27/05) and here's my row for today: 10,210K, damper at 4.5 (right on line btwn 4 & 5), rowed around 27 s/m, 2:31 splits for 500k on average, don't have heart monitor but was keeping it moderate, 51:07 time. (Altho I'm a 48 yo F, I have been active and work hard / lift heavy compared to many women). Maybe you are pulling too fast and not catching correctly? My only reference is one conversation with C2 staff ages ago - we need to recover quickly enough to pull again but keep it smooth. Before you get more info perhaps look at how many meters you get from each pull and see if you can increase that measure. Also look at grams post, she mentioned in the no straps dialogue strokes/minute and meters/stroke. good luck, don't get discouraged. Crane

[old] mmracing · Post by **[old] mmracing** » January 8th, 2006, 11:02 pm

Thanks for the info. I used my mechanics gloves, which I've found worked nicely for mountain biking, and the blisters didn't hurt.

[old] mmracing · Post by **[old] mmracing** » January 8th, 2006, 11:08 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(cwcesario @ Jan 8 2006, 09:37 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I'm a novice (started 11/27/05) and here's my row for today: 10,210K, damper at 4.5 (right on line btwn 4 & 5), rowed around 27 s/m, 2:31 splits for 500k on average, don't have heart monitor but was keeping it moderate, 51:07 time. (Altho I'm a 48 yo F, I have been active and work hard / lift heavy compared to many women). Maybe you are pulling too fast and not catching correctly? My only reference is one conversation with C2 staff ages ago - we need to recover quickly enough to pull again but keep it smooth. Before you get more info perhaps look at how many meters you get from each pull and see if you can increase that measure. Also look at grams post, she mentioned in the no straps dialogue strokes/minute and meters/stroke. good luck, don't get discouraged. Crane </td></tr></table> Thanks for the times. There must be something I'm doing wrong then. I'm 10 s/m faster at 37 and my times are slower than your. I might just be going crazy. Are you supposed to pause when you are at the end of your stroke?

[old] grams · Post by **[old] grams** » January 8th, 2006, 11:18 pm

MMRacing: 37 strokes per meter is really really fast. You have got to be rushing the recovery. You should be spending about twice as much time gliding back up to the front as you do pushing away from it. If I rush my split time gets a lot worse. My current split for 8000m is 2:24.5 at 21 spm and drag factor of 103. Funny you should mention martial arts and extending force through your weapon. I took a beginners class in Aikido many years ago. The theory is that you use your opponent's energy against him/her. I came home from the 2nd lesson and threw my 250 pound (first) husband. The look on his face as he lay on the floor at my feet was priceless. He promptly signed up for the class. We had a very amicable divorce 26 years ago. I wouldn't do that to my now hubby of 21 years-he only weighs 148 pounds and could get hurt. Anyhow I don't remember how I did it.... I use the marial arts flowing force visualization in rowing and it does make my stroke smoother and more efficient. I just extend my ki through the handle to the flywheel and back around to me again so my energy keeps flowing. grams

[old] erikajas · Post by **[old] erikajas** » January 9th, 2006, 12:36 am

Finally home in Nashville. I have to get up early but I decided if I was going to commit to erging there was no time like the present. Logged my first meters of the challenge...finally. Wimpy numbers...I've gotten sliggish over the last 10 days, but gives me something to work from. Todd: My 2 cents. As others have said, 37 is a pace for a 2000m piece, not distance. Make sure you're driving with your legs...think of the stroke as a dead lift: legs straighten from a squat position while the arms are straight and your back is the rigid connection between your arms and legs. When your knees straighten, follow through with your back, then arms. Then reverse (no pause): arms straighten, then lean from your hips and your legs follow BUT the legs bend slowly...it should be at least a 1:2 ratio drive:recovery. A good drill is to overemphasize the recovery with a 1:4 ratio. The reason for this is the erg mimics a real boat, where rushing forward on the recovery would push the momentum of the boat toward the stern slowing you down. The power and speed comes from the leg drive. Even when rowing at high stroke ratings, the ratio should still be there, the difference is that the drive speed increases proportionally. --Erika

[old] wellborn · Post by **[old] wellborn** » January 9th, 2006, 1:56 am

Perhaps I am in the minority of men who got the reference, but I did understand the "toddler socks" recommendation. In fact, I suggested this to my wife. I used to give baby socks to my students to use as chalk erasers for their individual chalk boards. (I am an elementary school teacher and yes, my school was in the dark ages until recently. At least now my class has individual white boards. I am aware that some school districts actually have laptops for each of their students. I'm happy just to have the white boards. ) Anyway, I brought the leftover socks home, and my wife has used them for every work-out since. I don't like them myself, because I feel like my hands slip with them. I use a baseball batting glove on my left hand and nothing on my right hand. For some reason my grip must be slightly different, because I had more problems with blisters on my left hand. Thus, the one glove (or maybe I have an unconscious Michael Jackson complex). grams, I just submitted my 2,000,000 meter challenge to KC. I'm getting the C2 socks this time. My wife just bought me a great water bottle and we have more glasses than we need. I think I'll try to accumulate more socks on my way to the 5,000,000 meter T-shirt. Speaking of which: Crane, I got my HC T-shirt about a week ago. I think I wore it three days in a row, I was so pleased with myself.

[old] jschuman · Post by **[old] jschuman** » January 9th, 2006, 10:59 am

Just wanted to add my accomplishment from this weekend: I rowed my first-ever sub-8:00 2000m (7:53.5 to be exact). I realize that probably isn't much of an accomplishment, but I was pretty happy! Been rowing for about a month and a half but I think I'm on the right track. My SPM hovered around 25 for the row, but I definitely dipped down to 21-22 at points (that's when I am usually trying to "change things up" and pull harder-slower). Anyway, just wanted to share. My goal for 2006 is to get into the top 50% in the rankings for a majority of my ranked pieces. I'm nowhere close (even this 7:53 2000m only puts me at 71%), but I feel like I'm on my way. Jeff

[old] Citroen · Post by **[old] Citroen** » January 9th, 2006, 2:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(cwcesario @ Jan 9 2006, 12:55 AM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Citroen, thanks for your input, it's great to have your veteran opinion! I wonder if only the moms among us are the ones who would get the 'toddler sock' idea?! BTW, how do guys like Taff team's top rower DO 400K in so few days? (Trying not to be incredulous here, but a novice like me with a FT job and parenting and all can't quite fathom this!) </td></tr></table> I've no idea how Speedy Adams does it. He was doing 44K per day last time I looked. But I guess if you're that fast it's only a couple of hours and a bit per marathon. I just please he's on our team, it's keeping us up there in the normal standings and the JVTC standings.

[old] DavidA · Post by **[old] DavidA** » January 9th, 2006, 3:56 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(cwcesario @ Jan 8 2006, 02:15 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Here's a question: for those of you who have rowed while viewing, how is the noise level? Before I move the erg, can you tell me if my husband is correct in thinking it'll be too loud for us to watch NFL playoffs together? (Not a critical problem, really!). thanks Crane </td></tr></table> Crane, I also have my erg right next to the TV, and have to turn the volume all the way up to be able to hear it while I row. Other family members who are just watching can't even seem to hear the TV quite as well as I can, but the volume doesn't go any higher . So I don't think it is too loud to watch together. I have a model C, but even with the quieter model D I think it would work out okay. If you are just rowing and watching TV by yourself I know that some people use wireless headphones. It makes it easier to hear the TV and the TV won't be heard by those in other rooms. David

[old] jschuman · Post by **[old] jschuman** » January 9th, 2006, 7:19 pm

My PM3 died! Here is a link to my post in the Product forum: <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... st&p=49831' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?s ... 831</a> Anyone care to help? Thanks, Jeff

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