Heart Rate Monitors

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » May 29th, 2004, 3:18 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Polar HR chest strap batteries are replaceable. Unfortunately, they have to be sent back to Polar to do so.  </td></tr></table> That's why I got a Nashbar monitor, and gave the Polar monitor away to a friend. A previous neighbor of mine used to get a new car every time the tires wore out, instead of just changing the tires. The tires were replaceable, without sending the car back, but he didn't see it that way.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » May 29th, 2004, 3:22 pm

Regarding maximum heart rates, a formula will not give an accurate result for most people. For example, world class runner Anne Audain had a maximum HR of 159. The formula would have predicted a 195. The only way to determine the MHR is by rowing at maximum HR, provided the person is healthy enough to row at this effort.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » May 29th, 2004, 3:43 pm

I used the HRM for some faster rowing today, and the results were interesting. 98 df . . . 8mps . . . no straps . . . temp 60/66 5k . . . 2:03.0 . . . 132 / 68% 5k . . . 1:59.0 . . . 144 / 77% 10x 4:00 with 2:00 rests . . . 1:54.8 . . . 154 / 84.8% 142 - 147 - 148 - 151 - 151 - 151 - 152 - 153 - 153 - 154 drank 1/2 liter of water after 4th and 7th 1 / 2 / 3 / 4:00 rates on 10th were: 143 - 150 - 153 - 154 30 / 60 / 90 second recoveries after 8th were: 131 - 96 - 83 4x 2:00 with 2:00 rests . . . 1:51.1 . . . 155 / 85.5% 148 - 152 - 154 - 155 90 second recovery was 74 . . . lower than on 1k's 6:00 at 2:20 pace . . . 110 - 112 - 114 90 second recovery . . . 82 . . . need more water

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » May 29th, 2004, 5:23 pm

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Adjustments based on results today: #1- warm ups are in a good range, at 68 to 77% of heart rate reserve; #2- 1k reps are at a good pace, at 85% of heart rate reserve; #3- recovery intervals are fine; #4- keep training HR at 154 / 85% or below; #5- do more rowing between 1:51 and 1:55 pace; #6- drink more water, before and between rowing; #7- it takes 2:00 for the HR to stabilize, so 1:00 reps are likely not as productive; ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

[old] Miker · Post by **[old] Miker** » May 30th, 2004, 12:30 pm

Just an aside with regards to using your heart rate measurement as a training tool. A persons heart rate can be affected by many external variables including temperature, humidity, if one is sick, etc. One measurement that is not affected however is power. Two hundred watts is two hundred watts no matter what you do. Most of my exercise time is spent cycling and power output is a better indicator of efficiency than heart rate. An example of this is climbing a hill. A heart rate monitor is slow to react to the effort you are putting in when you start climbing and if you are not careful, you can over extend yourself too quickly. Power output lets you know instantaneously and you can react accordingly. Luckily for most of us (those with PM2+ and PM3 and RowPro (shameless plug)) there is a power meter we can view. By monitoring power levels into your workout regimes you can have a better understanding of your efficiency.

[old] Rogus · Post by **[old] Rogus** » May 30th, 2004, 12:49 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Miker @ May 30 2004, 08:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> A persons heart rate can be affected by many external variables including temperature, humidity, if one is sick, etc.  </td></tr></table> This is exactly why using the HR monitor is such a good training tool. Since your HR is affected by all the variables you mention and others, the HR monitor will ensure that you adjust your workload to keep your HR in the zone you want to use. There are days when the body is fatigued, it's hotter than normal, you're feeling really great, etc. and if you tried to keep a certain power output no matter what, then you are either underworking or overworking yourself. Neither are a good use of your workout time. Overworking yourself can often hurt your fitness. Yes, HR increases lag behind power increases, which is actually a good thing. We take advantage of that lag in interval work. You just have be aware of that lag when shooting for a target HR. Using a HR monitor allows you learn how to use that HR lag to your benefit.

[old] whp4 · Post by **[old] whp4** » May 30th, 2004, 8:41 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (John Rupp @ May 29 2004, 07:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Regarding maximum heart rates, a formula will not give an accurate result for most people. For example, world class runner Anne Audain had a maximum HR of 159. The formula would have predicted a 195. The only way to determine the MHR is by rowing at maximum HR, provided the person is healthy enough to row at this effort. </td></tr></table> Seems like we went through this recently, but against my better judgment, I'll try again

Using a world class athlete as an example for an assertion about most people does not make a convincing argument. For that matter, one world class athlete as an example doesn't even make a convincing argument for an assertion about world class athletes (except perhaps one of the form "there exists a world class athlete who ..."). Obviously, a formula is unlikely to give perfectly accurate results for every member of a population. For the purposes of amateur training, however, it really isn't going to matter very much whether a 41-year-old male such as myself has a max heart rate of 177, 179, or 182 as suggested by the three formulas mentioned, or the 181 I've actually observed. An intelligent training plan will close a feedback loop around the process - it's not like everyone's anaerobic threshold is exactly the same percentage of MHR, for example. If the MHR number suggested by a formula is too low, you'll quickly realize that when you discover you can row for hours at 98% of MHR (or better yet, 105%); similarly, if the number is too high, you'll wonder why you blow up after a few minutes when the workout plan says you should be able to go much further. The exact MHR value really doesn't matter once you are in the ballpark.

[old] Carl Henrik · Post by **[old] Carl Henrik** » May 31st, 2004, 2:56 am

When mentioning a forumula I think it's appropriate to mention that deviations are natural and also how large they may be. I'm under the impression that deviations grow with age, and may be up to +/- 20 beats per minute at age 60. I'm 24 and my MHR on the erg is 183, quite distant from 196. Half a year ago it was 182, when it "should" have been 197 according to formula 220-age.

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » May 31st, 2004, 4:10 pm

Rogus, How do you use the monitor on your rows? Carl, Do you check the monitor doing sprints?

[old] Rogus · Post by **[old] Rogus** » May 31st, 2004, 4:39 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Carl Henrik @ May 30 2004, 10:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> When mentioning a forumula I think it's appropriate to mention that deviations are natural and also how large they may be. I'm under the impression that deviations grow with age, and may be up to +/- 20 beats per minute at age 60.  </td></tr></table> No formula works for everyone. My max heart rate is 188. A lot different than the 170-174.5 formulas say it "should" be. Enough of a difference that my heart rate training zones would not be accurate. John, All my workouts are planned for certain HR zones and I use the monitor to stay within them. Is that what you're asking?

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » May 31st, 2004, 5:28 pm

I am assuming that you all use monitors that plug into the machine ??? Does anyone out there use one where there is no such interface (dont think I can at my gym) and if so how, and do you find it succesfull.

[old] Miker · Post by **[old] Miker** » May 31st, 2004, 6:37 pm

George, I use a Polar HRM along with the C2 HR monitor. I am able to download the data from the watch and then interpret it with software that displays it in a graphical representation. I think the main benefit is that you can see the trend in the heart rate over the exercise period. The drawback is that you are limited to just the value of the heart rate during exercise and the Polar HRM is pricey.

[old] Rogus · Post by **[old] Rogus** » May 31st, 2004, 6:50 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (GeorgeD @ May 31 2004, 01:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I am assuming that you all use monitors that plug into the machine ??? Does anyone out there use one where there is no such interface (dont think I can at my gym) and if so how, and do you find it succesfull.  </td></tr></table> Well, I have my own D and purchased the C2 HR interface to take advantage of the Polar HR monitor and chest strap I already had. The HR interface plugs into the PM3 so if you purchase the interface and a chest strap you could take that with you and plug it into the C2 at your gym. I could use the watch like John does, but choose not to do so. As John mentioned, he attaches his monitor to the handle so he can read it easily. It's a good idea that I hadn't thought of if you have the equipment but don't want to buy the C2 interface. Using a HR monitor without the interface should be just as successful as using the HR monitor that's part of the PM as long as you can easily see it. I couldn't read it if I had my watch attached to my wrist like I do when I run. While running, I can hold my arm steady to read it. Can't do that while on the erg. Sometimes I lay the monitor watch underneath the erg so it records my workout. Like Miker said if your monitor has that capability, you can download the workout into your computer and see some nice graphs and workout data.

[old] Rogus · Post by **[old] Rogus** » May 31st, 2004, 7:06 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Miker @ May 31 2004, 02:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I think the main benefit is that you can see the trend in the heart rate over the exercise period.  </td></tr></table> One of the choices on the PM3 display is the "bar chart." This bar chart is your power in watts. However, if you have a HR interface and are using a chest strap, this graph shows your HR instead of watts. This will display your HR over whatever period it's based upon. I never use it, so don't know what period of time the chart covers. If it's important for you to see the trend of your HR over a workout, this would be a display choice you might want to use. What Miker might be particularly thinking about is what is somewhat commonly called "cardiac creep." What it means is over a piece at a constant pace, your heart rate will creep up due to fatigue. You're not going any faster. Your body just has to work harder to maintain the pace as you tire and consequently your HR increases to maintain that pace. From a practical standpoint, this means you either have to allow for the creep by starting slower and allowing the heart rate to creep up as you proceed or you'll have to slow the pace to keep the target HR in the proper zone. Those of us who prefer to finish faster rather than slower will start at a pace that puts us in the lower part of the target HR zone and finish at the upper part of the HR zone.

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » May 31st, 2004, 7:17 pm

Might have to win the NZ champs and then talk to Santa .... tks for the detailed response guys much food for thought ... (speaking of which time for more food)

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