Battle Of The Giants

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 1st, 2004, 5:52 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I also thought that Dwayne's ambition was to beat Pertii Karppinen's 40s hwt record, not to be the best in the world, despite his age. I thought the latter goal was only _yours_. </td></tr></table> Graham-- And, of course, if this is indeed the case, Dwayne appears to be succeeding supremely well in the pursuit of his goal, while you have quite a bit of work to do, sir, to reach yours. So, if I were you, I would quit the banter and get to work! It is a long way from your 5:52 to the world record in your division, 5:38. It isn't as far from Dwayne's 5:47 to the world record in his division, 5:52. In fact, he seems to have _already_ earned quite a leg up on his ambitions. ranger

[old] Ericr · Post by **[old] Ericr** » June 1st, 2004, 6:38 am

Ranger. Stick to your rules of banter, Graham is not in your league

[old] donm79 · Post by **[old] donm79** » June 1st, 2004, 9:16 am

Yeah ranger, you and Graham row on _different_worlds. Banter between you two strikes me as _very_odd.

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » June 1st, 2004, 10:02 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Graham Benton @ May 28 2004, 05:41 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>I have no desire to compare myself this precisely to Dwayne, but I do have a desire to respond to most things that ranger says. I can't believe that ranger has managed to turn the fact that I claim to have much more athletic performance than I am realising into a negative! What is actually means is that I am probably as far from reaching my peak as ranger claims Dwayne is past his. My belief is that for endurance and strength endurance events, the peak is mid to upper mid 30's. You could compare myself and Dwayne in 20 different ways and get 20 different results. eg. Dwayne is a former bodybuilding champion, I am a relative stick insect yet my 500m time is quicker than his, my max pull is lower and my racing starts are much quicker. All things that should suit his background. At the other end of the scale, my half marathon time is quicker as well. Yet, he is older than me but fairly comfortably quicker over 2k which is an achievement. None of these stats is the be all and end all as to look at any of these factors in isolation creates an unfair comparison. Dwayne is a tremendous athlete - compared to his age group peers he is out of this world. Compared to me he compares slightly favourably in terms of 2K time. Compared to Rob Waddell he has some way to go. No comparison is ever 100% fair but they are still valid comparisons. </td></tr></table> Well said Graham. People....are we forgetting what the question was????? Nothing was stated about age, weight, height, hair color, etc. The question was who do you think would win in a head to head race. QED!!!

[old] Graham Benton · Post by **[old] Graham Benton** » June 1st, 2004, 4:38 pm

Dwayne, don't you think it's odd that the 2 people who this thread was created to discuss can agree but ranger still finds something to debate? Ranger, again if you read what I said on page 4, I did not say Dwayne's ambition was to be the best in the world. But when you get to the sort of times that myself and even more so in Dwayne's case, are capable of then it becomes a realistic exercise to measure yourself against the whole population, not just those of the same age and weight. I am sure Dwayne does not think of himself as a near 40 year old ... he thinks of himself as an athlete in fantastic condition, on top of his sport. He doesn't need to footnote all his performances with 'not bad for a 39 year old' (are you 40 later this year, Dwayne) as his performances speak for themselves and stand up on their own merit. He does not need age taken into account to become one of the elite. If age and weight bands did not exist, people would still know the name Dwayne Adams. As for why I want to race Dwayne. Simple - for fun. Dwayne is a tremendous athlete, probably my closest rival in terms of times, we've got a history of friendly banter (engaged from a level standing!), people want to see us race, he's predominantly a non-rower also I believe, etc, etc. The fun is in challenging one of the best in the world, whether he is 40 or 24. Besides, as far as I am aware, we are currently in the same age category anyway!

[old] Rogus · Post by **[old] Rogus** » June 1st, 2004, 4:45 pm

That's the right attitude Graham and Dwayne! Now if I can just convince Ranger to go to his natural weight, we can race head to head at the WIRC instead of him hiding in the LW division.

[old] GeorgeD · Post by **[old] GeorgeD** » June 1st, 2004, 5:16 pm

What do I need to do to become a lightweight ..... apart from amputation

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 1st, 2004, 6:31 pm

O.K., O.K., I'll answer the question. Prediction: If Dwayne and Graham row head-to-head in the Open, neither will win because neither are the best in the world. Hiding in the lwt category? Ho, ho, ho. Mmm. Chops on the grill here, with baked potatoes. Back to tend the fixings... ranger

[old] Graham Benton · Post by **[old] Graham Benton** » June 2nd, 2004, 4:20 am

Prediction - 4 mins @ 1:22 in May suggests around 5:40 already, so by Boston I would not be surprised if Dwayne was the best in the world!

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 2nd, 2004, 5:37 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Now if I can just convince Ranger to go to his natural weight, we can race head to head at the WIRC instead of him hiding in the LW division. [wink.gif]  </td></tr></table> Rogus-- The hwt division is really just an open, "unrestricted" weight division. So at the CRASH-Bs, all lightweights do indeed row head-to-head against the heavyweights (and often in the same flight of rowers, at exactly the same time). There is no "hiding out" going on. In 2003, I won the silver hwt medal in the 50s division rowing as a lightweight (161 lbs. at the weigh-in), not a very common occurrence, especially for men. The heavyweight gold in the 50s that year was won by Tore Foss, who is, what, 6'8" and 250 lbs.? I beat all the other heavyweights. A heavweight silver would be a nice goal for you, no? You would have to get quite a bit better to reach that goal, but it looks as though you are on the right track. Good luck with it. See you at the 2005 CRASH-Bs. Are you going to BIRC and Rome? Best, ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 2nd, 2004, 5:40 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Graham Benton @ Jun 2 2004, 03:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Prediction - 4 mins @ 1:22 in May suggests around 5:40 already, so by Boston I would not be surprised if Dwayne was the best in the world! </td></tr></table> Graham-- If Dwayne can row under 5:40, there is no need for you to race him to see who is the best. The race is over before it begins. ranger

[old] donm79 · Post by **[old] donm79** » June 2nd, 2004, 10:41 am

That's enough banter, Ranger. It's getting _very_ odd.

[old] Rogus · Post by **[old] Rogus** » June 2nd, 2004, 11:17 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (ranger @ Jun 2 2004, 02:37 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> The hwt division is really just an open, "unrestricted" weight division. So at the CRASH-Bs, all lightweights do indeed row head-to-head against the heavyweights (and often in the same flight of rowers, at exactly the same time). There is no "hiding out" going on. In 2003, I won the silver hwt medal in the 50s division rowing as a lightweight (161 lbs. at the weigh-in), not a very common occurrence, especially for men. The heavyweight gold in the 50s that year was won by Tore Foss, who is, what, 6'8" and 250 lbs.? I beat all the other heavyweights. A heavweight silver would be a nice goal for you, no? You would have to get quite a bit better to reach that goal, but it looks as though you are on the right track. Good luck with it. See you at the 2005 CRASH-Bs. Are you going to BIRC and Rome? Best, ranger  </td></tr></table> Thanks for the words of encouragement Ranger. When it comes to erg racing, I'm just a a cocky newcomer with a big mouth and some very lofty goals. I wasn't aware of how the CRASH-Bs (WIRCs) work. You mean all 50-59 Hwts. and Lwts. race at the same time directly against each other? Did you win the silver Hwt. medal AND the gold Lwt. medal? I thought you "struggle" to get to 165 so am surprised you were racing at 161. Do you have to diet to race Lwt? Whether you placed 2nd in the Open/Hwt. while racing as a Lwt. or are just comparing times saying your time would've placed 2nd, it's still quite an accomplishment to do so at that weight. Still you were 19 seconds behind first and this last year even your lwt world record best would've "only" taken 5th place, if I remember correctly. 5th place at WIRC is a very respectful placing. My point being is, do you think one of us littler guys can take first place at WIRCs? If you think 2nd is a good goal for me, who do you think is going to beat me?? Seriously you must have someone in mind as the winner then.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 2nd, 2004, 12:20 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE </td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Thanks for the words of encouragement Ranger. When it comes to erg racing, I'm just a a cocky newcomer with a big mouth and some very lofty goals. I wasn't aware of how the CRASH-Bs (WIRCs) work. You mean all 50-59 Hwts. and Lwts. race at the same time directly against each other? Did you win the silver Hwt. medal AND the gold Lwt. medal? I thought you "struggle" to get to 165 so am surprised you were racing at 161. Do you have to diet to race Lwt? Whether you placed 2nd in the Open/Hwt. while racing as a Lwt. or are just comparing times saying your time would've placed 2nd, it's still quite an accomplishment to do so at that weight. Still you were 19 seconds behind first and this last year even your lwt world record best would've "only" taken 5th place, if I remember correctly. 5th place at WIRC is a very respectful placing. My point being is, do you think one of us littler guys can take first place at WIRCs? If you think 2nd is a good goal for me, who do you think is going to beat me?? [biggrin.gif] Seriously you must have someone in mind as the winner then.  </td></tr></table> Rogus-- Yes, I won the lightweight gold and the heavyweight silver simultaneously. Yes, as I remember, the heavyweights rowed at the same time as the lightweights. In fact, I had a heavyweight rowing right next to me. I would say that we all struggle at 50-55 years old to be lean (e.g., the weight we were at 20-25 years old). Our metabolism slows down; we eat too much (of the wrong things); and do too little. 165 lbs. is about my "best" weight, but who these days is at their best weight when they are 50-55 years old? So to make weight, yes, I have to work at it. I weighed in at 161 lbs. at the 2003 CRASH-Bs just to leave a little cushion. No problem for the race. That day, I rowed almost four seconds better than I ever had as a lightweight. No, I don't think a "little guy" has much chance of winning the heavyweight division at the CRASH-Bs, at least outside of the oldest divisions (e.g., 70s, 80s, and 90s). The average advantage is about a second a kg from the 20s to the 60s, if the weight is not just fat, but muscle and height. To my knowledge, no lightweight male, 20-69 years old, has ever won the "unrestricted weight" category. Perhaps the rowing historians on this line could verify this for us. I can't say who will beat you, Rogus. That's up to you! If you row 6:45, lots of people. If you row 6:25, probably only one or two. If you row 5:35, I suspect, none! I mention the silver medal because it is often much easier to get a silver or bronze medal than to get a hammer. For whatever reason (size, training, experience, talent, etc.), the CRASH-B winner is often very good and therefore pretty far ahead of the rest. CRASH-B races are often not close at all. Qualifying time this next year is about 6:26 for the 50s hwts, as I remember. That would be a nice goal for me to shoot for. Is that about where you're headed? ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » June 2nd, 2004, 12:31 pm

CRASH-B qualifying time for 50s lwts this year is 6:49.5. This is puzzling. Why the difference (of almost 25 seconds), if weight doesn't matter? And if weight doesn't matter, why does rowing have these weight divisions at all? ranger

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