Yet another technique question

[AtlantaCyclist]

I've studied good rowers on the erg in YouTube and similar videos, and what stands out in contrast to me is the leg drive > back sway > arms phases are smooth but clearly distinct. That is, the legs are straightened then the upper body is leaned back and finally the arms are used. My technique blurs those phases and my legs come to the fully straightened position only shortly before my arms reach my chest. My attempts to fix it feel unnatural (jerky) and I quickly revert to my old form. Any tips or tricks for addressing the problem?

[mdpfirrman]

There are rowers that have way more experience than I do on here, but the two things that helped me the most were this video (breaking it down into the separate components and doing each one separately like in the video) and rowing strapless. Rowing strapless helps to keep you honest. If you're not moving your hands back quickly, you lose your balance. Build up to it but start doing your warmups and cooldowns strapless. Once you get good at it (can do it for longer than 10/15 minutes) gradually do all your longer rows strapless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ82RYIFLN8

[Dangerscouse]

What is your stroke rate and drag factor? They might need to change. Do you row at a gym? Is there an instructor you can ask for help?

I agree with Mike Too, strapless will be helpful.

[AtlantaCyclist]

What is your stroke rate and drag factor? They might need to change. Do you row at a gym? Is there an instructor you can ask for help?

I agree with Mike Too, strapless will be helpful.

I have a Concept2 Model D in my basement. I've rowed over one million meters since I got it, so I have some "unlearning" to do.

Stroke rate is low - 20 - 22. Don't recall the drag offhand, but the flywheel is clean and the damper is set at 4.

I'll try strapless.

[JerekKruger]

The jerky feeling you describe is because your brains hasn't had enough experience of the correct movement pattern to turn it into a single movement so, unfortunately, if you want to change it you're probably going to have to live with it for a while. It'll slowly disappear as you get used to the correct movement.

Mike's advice on separating the segments of the stroke apart and doing them separately is a good one, as is his suggestion to row strapless. You'll probably find that you naturally revert to your old form as you fatigue since it's what is easiest for you right now, so you might have to cut your workouts short and/or break them into several intervals with short rests in between.

[jamesg]

my legs come to the fully straightened position only shortly before my arms reach my chest.

This means your leg action at the catch is slow, due to bad posture. This is usually caused by wrong recovery sequence and by feet too high.

Try tying a rope round the rail at about 2 feet from your heels, so that you have a front stop as in a shell. If you hit it coming forward, your recovery sequence is slide first or all at once, so the wrong way round. Another result of wrong recovery sequence is lifting hands over knees.

The C2 technique video shows the backstop drill, with the recovery sequence for a catch posture that lets us move fast with the legs. Note the swing, the knee angle at the catch, about 45°, and the heel-slide distance.

You can help yourself by setting feet as low as possible and using very low drag. The first helps us get on our feet, so that we can shove hard and fast, the second gives us a faster pull so leaves more time for recovery after all that hard work.

[gregsmith01748]

Hi,

I've been rowing for 8 years and I am just now trying to unlearn some very similar habits. In my case, I have trouble with the recovery. Here's what I do wrong. I pause at the finish for a brief moment and then simultaneously start to slide toward the catch, extend my arms, and swing my back. This habit started when I started to try to row at low rates for the Wolverine plan years ago. Now I am determined to break it. I've been working with a coach, which has been helpful. The advice given so far is.

1. Do a "pause at body over" drill. Row with feet out. Make sure that the hands do not stop at the finish, keep the knees down, extend arms, swing your back to the right position for the catch and then pause. During the pause make sure your arms are in the right position, and back is in the right position and then go to the catch. I think the best way to do this drill is one stroke normal, one stroke paused for about 5 minutes.

2. I was having trouble maintaining good posture, I was slumping. So, the recommendation was to do a quick set of abdominal exercises in the rests between intervals. You do this on the erg with feet out of the strap. Start with extended legs, extended arms, and body forward. You are NOT holding the handle, just hold your hands together with arms extended. Then swing your body back to the finish position and raise your extended arms up over your head until you feel your feet get light. Hold the position for the a 2 count, then brings arms back down, and hinge back forward. This not only strengthens the core, it gives you a feel for what a hip hinge should feel like and gets your back into the right posture.

3. This one is a bit stranger in my mind, but for some reason it really works. As you approach the finish, concentrate on really squeezing your glutes. Tense up your butt. And keep it tense through the finish until your arms are away and your body is over. I found it much easier to execute a good body swing when I think this way.

4. Try to master all of this at low rates, like r18, and then try it for short intervals at faster paces. Above r24, it is almost impossible to focus on any one aspect of the stroke, you are just executing from muscle memory. You have to do drills and try stuff at low rates to break old habits.

5. If you can, do all of this stuff in front of a mirror at least sometimes.

6. Totally agree about strapless rowing. Unless the rate is above 24, needing the straps means that you have technique issues to fix.

[Remo]

Have someone film you, you are probably not as bad as you think.

As mentioned by others, feet out is a great drill.

Additionally the pick drill is very good for getting coordination and a is a great warm up for when you first get on the erg. Here is an OK demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoQkcuWOtAw

Both of these drills help out the back end, and they can be combined too.

[Cyclingman1]

Actually there have been any number of highly technical studies about the rowing stroke. Generally, there are four basic rowing styles that are categorized as simultaneous or consequent with emphasis on legs or back. You describe a consequent style. No one says that is the best. Great rowers also use the simultaneous style. In that case body part movements overlap considerably. The force curve is often an indicator what style is being used with what emphasis. The goal should be to generate a smooth force curve with the maximum area possible. There is no advantage to a huge bump at the start [heavy leg emphasis]. [Had an exchange with one of the C2 brothers on this very topic a few yrs back. He completely agreed that total area under the curve is what has to be maximized.] Plenty of great rowers have a more flattened force curve. Improvement is usually possible, but changing one's rowing style may more easier said than done. There is a reason most people row as they do: body dimensions and flexibility. I would say improve your force curve with perhaps a small tweak in style.

PS: What brings you to the forum after 14 posts in 12 yrs? BTW, no signature or personal data?

[AtlantaCyclist]

PS: What brings you to the forum after 14 posts in 12 yrs? BTW, no signature or personal data?

Rowing on the erg has always been secondary to cycling, but I've decided to row more for two reasons. First and foremost is the fact that Atlanta roads are increasingly unsafe for cyclists. Between congestion, drivers looking at their phones and general impatience, I simply don't feel safe. i have an elderly mother, wife and two kids who need me. Also, I want a little more balanced fitness. Being bike fit is fun, but I need more muscle, core strength, etc.