Stroke Rate or Heart Rate, Can’t Seem To Have Both

[David Pomerantz]

Hi all,
I’ve been indoor rowing for over 20 years. Over the last 5 or so, I’ve really taken my cruising rate down to about 18-20spm. I just got RowPro, and am doing a plan to compete at 5000m or 6000m. The easy days call for very low HR at 23-27spm. No matter how easy I’m pulling, if I go 23-24spm then my HR flies. Is it important for me to rate up to >=23? Should I allow myself to go a lower rate and keep HR in target range? Or should I make effort to up my rate to that range? I’m pretty sure my strokes are more efficient at lower rates. Thanks,

Dave

[Marsh_Creek_Sculler]

Follow the HR recommendation. That's the important one. Going at 23-27 but low power is just going to screw up your stroke ratio.

[David Pomerantz]

Marsh-Creek-Sculler,
Thanks for the response. That was my intuition. Going for the higher rate makes me feel like I’m taking steps backwards.

Dave

[bisqeet]

im a bit confused.

the power used in the stroke should be the same regardless of the stroke rate. the only thing that should change is the recovery phase.
lower rate = more recovery.

what you seem to be doing is compensate a higher rate with using a weaker stroke so you can keep a HR restriction. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

basically you are using the same pace at r22 as r27 (work is the same, HR the same - higher heart rates due to sliding up and down the rails more)

seems to me that you are taking steps backwards.
practice a weak stroke - you will have a weak stroke


if your crusing rate = 20 and the pace is 2:00/500 which equates to 200W - thats about 10W/stroke - (I chose that number because it is round and easy to calculate)

so you want to train R27 at 27*10W = 270W = 1:49/500m

[David Pomerantz]

Bisqueet,
You are right on target. I have been trying to compensate with weaker stroke in effort to do higher rate and get heart rate down. The RowPro training plan emphasizes that there are 3 components to increasing performance: strength of stroke, stroke rate, endurance. I’ve been thinking perhaps I should try to acclimate to the higher prescribed stroke rate. I think I’ll do better and enjoy it more if I give priority to the heart rate and let the stroke rate go where it will. I’m sure I’ll rate up on the time trials and max efforts.

Dave

[jamesg]

The easy days call for very low HR at 23-27spm.

I don't usually bother, but it may help if we distinguish between facts and guidelines. If my horrid Interactive Plan says 2*18' as it did this a.m, that's a fact and if I do it, that's a fact too.

If it says HR in band X, rating Y, Watt percent W, these are guidelines for anyone who doesn't already know what rating and power to set and where it will take their HR.

Certainly "very low HR at 23-27" is not rowing at all; maybe a slow cruise in a kayak or canoe with the wind astern?

[lwtguy]

I don't see how anyone is going to have a low heart rate going at 27spm. When it comes to long pieces, you can do it two ways:

1) Lower rating, which keeps your heart rate down, as well as some of the "burn" in your legs. But you will start to feel your power wearing down by the end.

2) Higher rating, which causes your HR to shoot up quickly, your breathing to increase, and makes you sweaty but also enables your legs to maintain some power for longer.

Depending on your level of fitness, a low rating and a high rating are subjective. For me, I would consider 24 to be the highest I would go for anything longer than 40 minutes. I do most of my long distance work at 18-22spm. 27 just seems absurd to me.

[Dangerscouse]

@ Bill I must be the exception to the rule. I naturally row at 27/28 and that could be for up to 50km and my HR goes up the lower rating that I do. It's easy for me to maintain a HR of circa 135-138 on r27 if the average pace is 1:58 or slower. I've done it quite a few times.

[David Pomerantz]

I feel like my natural easy long slow distance rate is 18-20spm. The rowpro plan has workouts called SP - Slow Pressure. Those are intervals 500-1500m, 80-85% pressure, 18-22spm. I really enjoy that type of effort.

Dave

[hjs]

I don't see how anyone is going to have a low heart rate going at 27spm. When it comes to long pieces, you can do it two ways:

1) Lower rating, which keeps your heart rate down, as well as some of the "burn" in your legs. But you will start to feel your power wearing down by the end.

2) Higher rating, which causes your HR to shoot up quickly, your breathing to increase, and makes you sweaty but also enables your legs to maintain some power for longer.

Depending on your level of fitness, a low rating and a high rating are subjective. For me, I would consider 24 to be the highest I would go for anything longer than 40 minutes. I do most of my long distance work at 18-22spm. 27 just seems absurd to me.

If you use a "cycling" stroke, which you often see in the gym, higher rating is pretty easy. Has very little to do with rowing ofcourse. It going up and down without finishing the stroke. Instead of fully pulling in the handle, they let the knees break when pulling in. All power is gone that way, so hf will stay low.

[JerekKruger]

@ Bill I must be the exception to the rule. I naturally row at 27/28 and that could be for up to 50km and my HR goes up the lower rating that I do. It's easy for me to maintain a HR of circa 135-138 on r27 if the average pace is 1:58 or slower. I've done it quite a few times.

Not unique. If I row at the the same split at two different stroke rates my heart rate will be lower for the higher rate. I assume, though don't know for certain, that Bill was referring to an increase in both rate and pace.