Doubt about training intensity zone.

[JerekKruger]

@Strider - the fact that someone who has had bypass surgery can increase their max heart rate through aerobic training tells us nothing about the effects of aerobic training on the max heart rates of athletes with healthy hearts. Everything I've read on the question points in the direction of max heart rate being either unrelated to fitness or even decreasing slightly with very high fitness (possibly due to higher stroke volume resulting in the heart not needing to beat as often to provide the same overall flow). If you have a paper that says otherwise then by all means link it, but please bear in mind that I'm talking about max heart rate in athletes with healthy hearts, not those recovering from heart surgery.

[strider]

I was half surprised the post survived review.

I used something in my rehab that was discussed in some forums here, and I later saw the subject titled in studies, Graded Exercise Therapy. In forums here, it was initially called cardiac drift. My theory is that the heart maintains pace for the exercise as long as it can, but when HR start rising, it will continue rising unless the person lowers intensity, and it will then level off again. Not actually new. The heart is starting to fatigue, so beats faster, while it can tolerate it. Early in rehab, cooling down and ending the exercise was mandatory. Later when I had a lot more strength and endurance, I could scale down, and keep going. Over the course of more months, and years, this see-saw action flirting with fatigue, led to to greater and greater exercise tolerance at prior heart rates. I also used information I read from First Beat Technologies and incorporated into Training Effect and EPOC research, which values intensity of exercise and recovery times. Three months after bypass surgery, I could walk half a mile slowly. The first month, just walking to the bathroom was tough.

Long story short, I stuck to this protocol for many years, and raised my post surgery max heart rate from under 110, to somewhere over 183. I could also push my Concept2 erg to 1:38 pace for short periods. Not earth shattering, but for a guy with my heart disease, pretty amazing. I could play basketball, volleyball, and get out on the water and row again. I skipped racing shells, since cold water immersion is not my friend, but did get good workouts out of the now defunct Phins Club in Marina Del Rey, California, sculling their single and double long boats, 120 and 150 lbs. I was out most weekend mornings, with a friend, daughter, or solo, getting in an hour row, with symptoms of heart disease a distant memory.

Overtrain, lack of recovery will limit improvements.
With heart rate monitoring, one can anticipate fatigue, and train to extend well beyond current limitations.
But along the way, now and then the athlete will push to close, and get burned, pushing beyond his maximum. Recover, continue.
One more learning experience, as long as you live through it.

Along the way, get stronger, avoid injury and muscle imbalance, and maybe consider a little more blade time in the water to improve boat speed.
Solve the mysteries of stern check, swing, heels or toes ?
Back in strong position, or max stretch ?
Legs, back, and arms concurrently, or serially ?

Its better than a soap opera !

[WoodcarvingGypsy]

@ Strider

I wish I had read your post in 2017. I had a quad bypass in April 2017, completely unexpected. I had no heart symptoms but a routine EKG found an anomaly that the subsequent stress EKG (a instrument of torture for sure) and the cardiac cath confirmed that I was headed for the widow maker.

I started rowing after about 6-8 weeks in rehab, keeping my heart rate to below 125 (otherwise the nurses yelled at me ). They were using the old 220-age formula for max heart rate so I tried not to exceed that, at least while they were watching. On a 3 day rehab schedule, I eventually got to where I could sustain a heart rte of 150 for the duration of my row.

My concern was that when they did the first echo stress, my ejection fraction was somewhere between 35 - 40%. After 18 weeks of rehab and continued rowing at the rehab center, the cardiac Dr did another echo stress, My ejection fraction had risen to above 55%.

Fortunately, my cardiac doc is a rower as well (she says she has a hate/hate relationship with her water rower) so it's been interesting discussing the various heart rate calculations and recovery rates. At any rate, I'll keep rowing. My problem is that we travel in the winter months and I don't always have access to a Concept2.

Glad you're doing well.

[bob01]

Max hr... N - age is utter nonsense.
My max and resting rate has changed little in the last 35 years
You need to establish your own and other parameters before you start defining your zones
Even then HR is not perfect... Far from it.
Use watts !