Pete Plan 2017

[hjs]

Rating 26/27 will not get you optimal 2k results. Aim for 30 or up.

[DNA_Rower]

Rating 26/27 will not get you optimal 2k results. Aim for 30 or up.

Did not know that tbh. Is there any kind of guide for the optimal rate for each standard piece?

I usually try to aim for 20-22 for 30min and 10k, and 22-24 for 5k. I don't often do short pieces, even intervals, so no idea what was needed.

[calalli]

@DNA: nice interval session there, you were able to pick up the pace throughout pretty much. And to finish with a 1:44.5! I am humbled
@Henry: I had no idea there were such specific guidelines for rate. It seems the BPP is guiding us to lower our rate as I move through it. Frankly, I have never pulled a 30 spm and am not sure I could. So how do you build that up - specific interval drills or do I go counter to Pete and start working on higher rate on all my sessions?

20/6/17 BPP 11.2 8x500M /2'r - My target based on the last time was 1:56.5 - I beat that quite handily, but lost the will on the last rep. Still - some of my best ever split times and I broke 1:50 once, so I'll take it.
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr s/m
14:59.9 4,000m 1:52.4 246 1145 27
1:53.4 500m 1:53.4 240 1125 27 143 end HR
1:52.5 500m 1:52.5 246 1145 27 148
1:51.7 500m 1:51.7 251 1163 26 151
1:51.5 500m 1:51.5 252 1168 26 152
1:50.6 500m 1:50.6 259 1189 27 155
1:53.9 500m 1:53.9 237 1114 27 153
1:49.5 500m 1:49.5 267 1216 26 157
1:56.7 500m 1:56.7 220 1057 26 153

[hjs]

Rating 26/27 will not get you optimal 2k results. Aim for 30 or up.

Did not know that tbh. Is there any kind of guide for the optimal rate for each standard piece?

I usually try to aim for 20-22 for 30min and 10k, and 22-24 for 5k. I don't often do short pieces, even intervals, so no idea what was needed.

No fix rates ofcourse, depends also on height, but if you are not super tall, rating 30 of above for a 7.00 flat is lowish even.
Fast guys, sub 6, often tall rate 35 and above.

Roughly speaking, talking about time trials, if you would rate 30 on a 2k, 27 would be ok for 5, and 25/26 for 10.
Thats not for training, but Time trials.
You try to make stroke a bit softer and at the same time up the rating. Try that a next time, do it on feel though, nothing is "needed", but 26 ish is never optimal for a 2k.

Re Cal. You guys are relative new, Pete himself, pretty fast and not so tall. 5.10 rated a good bit higher himself. Don,t force yourself, but keep it mind in the longer run. Being able to rate up, makes us faster.

[G-dub]

My 2Ks have been at r35 - not that I am anything other than a short middle aged guy that is wanting to break 7 too. Those sprint intervals help you practice higher rates without risk - except for your friends saying "wow, you really rated high on that one!". What Henry says is huge - it is Ok if the stroke feels lighter. In fact that is one of the hard parts of rating up - keeping the softer stroke and not backing down to a heavy one as you get tired.

[optimuswolf]

Useful advice on the rates. I started struggling to rate under 25 but now anything over 28 feels very quick.

Gave myself a day off from lifting or rowing yesterday as I felt dreadful after lifting on Sunday.

Today was last of the speed intervals.
C2 W3 S1 (4x1000, 5'r - Target 1:49.6)

14:32.0 4,000m 1:49.0 28
3:39.1 1,000m 1:49.5 28
3:38.8 1,000m 1:49.4 27
3:38.0 1,000m 1:49.0 27
3:36.1 1,000m 1:48.0 28

[mdpfirrman]

Me too on the rate stuff. I'm very much a work in progress in that regard. Been still at my higher meter phase. Did 68K or 69K last week and heading for that same amount this week. Today, I did a hard 2K after lifting and a 5K brisk warmup and struggled to stay at 26 SPM. That's an improvement from a couple of weeks ago for me. I'm trying NEVER to be below 22 at this point and I think it's slowly helping me. I'm doing some 250m sprints later this week and I'll attempt to hold a 31/32 for that (and worry more about the SPM than pace). Something that helps me Optimus is doing some rows where SPM is more of a target than my pace.

@DNA Rower - there's two sides of the rate stuff. While I certainly think that Henry's right about your rate (and mine too!) being too slow, the fact that you can do that pace at that rate is impressive. Like I mentioned above, while I'm formally off the PP currently, I've been doing my intervals working on SPM as much as speed. Perhaps use SPM as your goal one workout instead of pace and see if you can hit a SPM goal instead.

[G-dub]

To me some of this rate discussion comes down to intention. If you are in base building phase and working on stroke and power then it makes sense to me to push out heavy strokes and rate capped rows. But when it's time to put a time up, lightening the stroke in my opinion gets us to the end faster. So I think that speed work has something to do with...speed and not max power per stroke if that makes sense.

[barrec]

@cal: I'm still just doing a little warm up and cool down strapless. I think I am going to gradually introduce it to my slow and steady rows, say the first 2k and then put straps on. Even when I strap in for slow rate stuff, I am very conscious of the straps, though it's no substitution.

Re: SPM, I'll start by saying I've not raced not am an expert by any means. I am sure there can be lots of reasons to use different stroke rates and agree with letting the intention behind the workout guide SPM. The way I understand PP, though, is that it's designed to speed up your 2K trial time which would require faster rates for optimal speed. That is what the workouts are designed to do anyway.

My hat is off to you all who can pull such low splits and SPM! What great strength and control it must take. At this point for me, 6 months back on the erg, my lungs have surpassed my muscles. I'm hoping switching from BPP to the original will help them balance again.

[hjs]

Me too on the rate stuff. I'm very much a work in progress in that regard. Been still at my higher meter phase. Did 68K or 69K last week and heading for that same amount this week. Today, I did a hard 2K after lifting and a 5K brisk warmup and struggled to stay at 26 SPM. That's an improvement from a couple of weeks ago for me. I'm trying NEVER to be below 22 at this point and I think it's slowly helping me. I'm doing some 250m sprints later this week and I'll attempt to hold a 31/32 for that (and worry more about the SPM than pace). Something that helps me Optimus is doing some rows where SPM is more of a target than my pace.

@DNA Rower - there's two sides of the rate stuff. While I certainly think that Henry's right about your rate (and mine too!) being too slow, the fact that you can do that pace at that rate is impressive. Like I mentioned above, while I'm formally off the PP currently, I've been doing my intervals working on SPM as much as speed. Perhaps use SPM as your goal one workout instead of pace and see if you can hit a SPM goal instead.

In the end, its about free rate what we can do. Not being able to rate up is a weakness, being able to use a range if rates from low to high is a strenght.
Higher rating is partly personal but certainly also technique and fitness. Otw rowers are forced to rate higher in boats, on the erg no such thing. It could make sense to overrate pieces. Sprintpieces are proberly not the answer, to short, we should be able to rate higher on longer pieces.

[DNA_Rower]

BPP W17.3 2*15min 2r

Was aiming for 1:55.9/500 as this was my 3*10min pace a few weeks ago. Managed to get 1:55.7, so quite pleased although pace was not consistent throughout.

1:55.7 s23
1:55.6 s24

so slight negative split with higher rate in 2nd half.

[derico]

21k as 3 * 30 minute rows (breakfast, lunch and tea time) as PP steady distance and to coincide with Concept2 Solstice Challenge!

[calalli]

Got a wild hair today, did the summer solstice challenge rather than the 8000M for BPP. Good Lord what a long session.

Time Meters /500m Watts Cal/Hr s/m
1:39:44.7 21,097m 2:21.8 123 722 21

[rlboyles]

I am always blown away by so many of you on this forum that can produce your best times at low SPM!

I believe that as base training low SPM are good. But my philosophy this spring was that once I had built my base, and began the Pete Plan (which I don't think of as a base building training scheme!?!) I abandoned limiting my SPM on all workouts except the steady state recovery days I'd try to keep it around 30-32spm. Other than that I did whatever SPM I needed to reach my goal for the pace I tried to force myself to do for that day. That usually meant 33 thru 40+ SPM depending on how hard I had to push to get the result I wanted. Even on Sundays when I did 5000m tests, I'd use 34 spm avg with the finishes at the 38 number.

I found that when I first transitioned from base training to the Pete Plan, my biggest deficiency was that my body was not used to the high rates because I hadn't done them in base training. I believe that your body gets good at what you do most often, so I abandoned low SPM in all training - even Pete's recommendation for 22-25spm on recovery days, because I figured since I already had a base of fitness, now I was training my muscles and physiology to respond best to high spm. I was glad I'd done the base training, but when I committed to the Pete Plan I was finished with base training. I committed to the Pete Plan to improve my speed to get my best 2000m time.

Everyone is different, but I feel with out a doubt that higher SPM is the best/required path to fast 2000m time. In a weird way, I equate trying to row a fast 2000m time at slow SPM being similar to trying to run a fast mile time, but trying to limit how many steps you can take, so you way over stride with exaggerated leaping strides. I think that'd work for about the first little bit, but it isn't efficient over a long distance. I just don't think low SPM is as efficient. Use the momentum of the flywheel and keep it going fast.

In the last year I have read many books and watched many videos of Olympic champion rowers. I am sure being in a boat is different (duh!), but my impression before reading had always been that they used low SPM cause they were a bunch of badasses. Well, come to find out, during their 2000m competitions they often used like 34spm to up above 40 spm. I figured if it worked for them, it'd work for me.

I think, in my mind, to force yourself to use higher spm, pick a distance like 500m or 750m, or 1000m and force yourself to do pace that you think seems impossible for yourself (by pace I mean like 1:4?/500m or 1:3?/500m)... and pull as fast a SPM as you need to meet that pace. That will force you to get a little crazy and push beyond a comfort zone to do whatever it takes to get your time.

That's my two cents. I'm no expert whatsoever, but that's been my experience.

[rlboyles]

And in my mind, if you do a short interval at a high SPM and are faster, but say to yourself - "Yes, I'm faster, but I could never keep that up for a full 2000m." Well in my mind, I believe you can keep it up for 2000m, but your body needs to train on a regular basis at that higher SPM so that your muscles/physiology begin to respond to regular sessions at the higher SPM. Then, boom - not only will you have the power from your previous low SPM training, but also will have found another gear you didn't know you had.