Pete Plan 2017

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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hjs
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by hjs » May 8th, 2017, 10:32 am

mdpfirrman wrote:
ChasinElk wrote:Thanks mike the body bounces back fairly quick from short breaks :mrgreen:

I was under the impression the level 3 workouts were SS type rows and the level 4 were very pace specific lower spm?
I'm certainly not a Wolverine expert. Quite frankly, the PP (by a lot of people) is seen as a dummied down version of Wolverine. Quantified Rowing is a site that Greg Smith (a frequent contributor to the C2 forums) put together. He has accumulated a LOT of material on the Wolverine plan on that site. All that I could find on Phase 3 is that it's supposed to be 85 to 90% of max 2K effort. That's like the TT day to me on the full PP or an AT row. Phase 4 is supposed to be "generally" 80 to 90% of max 2K effort. The lower the SPM on the Phase 4, it's possible to have the effort more like 70% of max effort (at 18 SPM for instance). The main difference between the plans is Wolverine never allows compromise on the power per stroke on the Phase 4 part of the plan. PP replaces Phase 4 with a MUCH more liberal 3 SS days. Wolverine is discipline to the extreme. Phase 4 is a thing (in my opinion) of beauty, but many people don't have the patience for it (I certainly don't). Where I think the PP is meant to be a sharpening tool, the beauty about the Wolverine Plan is it can be an entire rowing season plan by gradually building the intensity of the Phase 4 rows. Most that try Wolverine go way ahead of themselves on the Phase 4 rows. I usually don't like to talk about Wolverine because there's been some (on here including me) that have been personally chastised about being wrong on the interpretation by "the man" himself. I would like to believe after 3 years of rowing that I understand it better now than I used to (but that's up for debate). Your question might be better to ask others with more experience than me (on perhaps a separate thread). I think there's advantages to keeping speed work (even if not as much as PP) throughout the year. I do like your idea of doing 12 weeks or so with more meters. I'm planning on doing the same. More of a base meter phase (which Phase 4 of the Wolverine is their "base meters") is always a fantastic idea to build up a fantastic aerobic engine. I think it should include one longer day (an hour or longer) per week. I think personally that a day where I do a 90 minute or so row would help me tremendously.
Wp s indeed much more disciplined, and its important to use a real 2k as a baseline, and start the level4 work from the bottom. The rest is a bit more open, but L3 is certainly not SS work. The L4 is a bit like the SS work. Only rate capped.

You can offcourse build a plan like you wish, but the way most rowers use the PP does not work well for the WP. I disagree its complicated, most people simply don,t take the time to read it well.

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jackarabit
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by jackarabit » May 8th, 2017, 12:35 pm

Best follow Mike and Henry's advice to begin your acquaintance with the monastic discipline of WP L4 at the "bottom" which means starting with 10' or 6' sequences of rate and pace changes which result in very low average spm (16.8 for the "168"). "200" may look easy because of the superficial resemblance to a Concept 2 rate ladder or pyramid WOD. Prescribed paces added to rates will make it a difficult effort indeed.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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IefTheChief
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by IefTheChief » May 8th, 2017, 3:29 pm

Good evening all,

@Anne - Welcome and good luck.

@Street - Welcome back! Hope you enjoyed your Amsterdam trip and it didn't cause the chest infection :?

PP C4W3S3, 3k, 2.5k, 2k / 5min rest, target 2:03.0

30:22.4 7,500m 2:01.4 22
12:17.7 3,000m 2:02.9 22
10:14.3 2,500m 2:02.8 22
7:50.4 2,000m 1:57.6 24

Almost under 2' target, next cycle I think/hope.

PP C4W3S4, 10k SS

42:05.4 10,000m 2:06.2 23
8:42.3 2,000m 2:10.5 23
8:23.0 4,000m 2:05.7 23
8:28.5 6,000m 2:07.1 22
8:19.7 8,000m 2:04.9 24
8:11.9 10,000m 2:02.9 24

Not really steady, wanted to push to get a feeling if I can do a sub 40' anytime soon. Think it's doable, but then need to do more of these sessions. Planning to do that in 3 weeks (after cycle 5) when I want to focus on SS work for a few weeks.
Ivo Wentholt: 45y, 181cm, 85 kg (103 kg on 6 Jan '17, on a weight mission)
2k: 7:24.8 | 5k: 19:39.0 | 10k: 42:05.4

calalli
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by calalli » May 8th, 2017, 4:07 pm

Wow, a lot going on.

Elk - all those times just make my head spin. I can't imagine ever getting close to that point.
Dietmar - very nice 500 again!
Scott - We are pretty close on the BPP. Nice 8000 and 8500. I think you are doing a better job than me of not chasing the rabbit.
Mike - Good to see you back at it! I am sure you will be up to speed in no time.
rlboyles - you are just kicking but on the 5k. I may borrow your pyramid workout. I realized on my 2K attempt that I just did not have the legs to maintain a higher stroke rate, maybe that will help.
Dyson and Ivo - nice sessions. I hope I can get under 2:00 for something meaningful soon.

And welcome to Anne!
7/5/17 - 10000M ad hoc session. I pulled a hip flexor Saturday while ... stretching the hip flexor. I wanted to see if I could still row. I realized I could so I did a SS for calories. The hip seems fine unless I am doing back lunges - then it hurts!
Time Meters /500m Watts Cal/Hr s/m
45:40.8 10,000m 2:17.0 136 767 25
9:31.3 2,000m 2:22.8 120 712 25 133
8:53.9 4,000m 2:13.4 147 805 28 147
9:05.8 6,000m 2:16.4 138 774 26 142
9:07.7 8,000m 2:16.9 136 767 24 145
9:02.1 10,000m 2:15.5 141 785 22 149

8/5/17 - BPP 7.1 8000M - target pace was 2:11.9 - I forgot the directive to stay under r24 at first.
Time Meters /500m Watts Cal/Hr s/m
34:50.7 8,000m 2:10.6 157 840 22
7:02.9 1,600m 2:12.1 152 822 24 132
6:58.9 3,200m 2:10.9 156 836 22 138
6:56.5 4,800m 2:10.1 159 846 21 142
6:57.9 6,400m 2:10.5 157 840 22 145
6:54.5 8,000m 2:09.5 161 853 21 150
cal - age 55 ht 5'10" wt 205 lbs

ChasinElk
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by ChasinElk » May 8th, 2017, 7:46 pm

Welcome Anne

Thanks cal

Welcome back street

Mike thanks for the detailed input much appreciated

TY jackrabbit

IefTheChief
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by IefTheChief » May 9th, 2017, 7:10 am

paul45 wrote:Ivo a 2:06.2 10k is a long way from sub 40' 1:59.9 ave :lol: :wink: trust me.

Saying that good solid training and your coming on, a good session to do is 2 x 5k/5'r,
do 1st rep @ 1:59.9, 2nd rep beat it, great for the mental strength for 10k, remember
10k is twice the distance of a 5k.
Thanks, will do that for my hard session next week!
Ivo Wentholt: 45y, 181cm, 85 kg (103 kg on 6 Jan '17, on a weight mission)
2k: 7:24.8 | 5k: 19:39.0 | 10k: 42:05.4

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Rowan McSheen
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by Rowan McSheen » May 9th, 2017, 7:45 am

Afternoon all.
sdr2017 wrote: I am more consistent when I do not play games with the HR monitor. It was a nice row.
Nice steady session ... am I the only one who thinks that the more I look at the hrm during the session, the more hr creeps up? As if it wants to spite me ...

Welcome Anne! And commiserations to Street on the lurgy (whispers: but I hear Amsterdam is a good place to obtain, erm, allegedly medicinal herbs) :)

And thumbs up to everyone who's been in the saddle.

Right then, BPP week 12 session 1: 10000m, improving the pace on last time. I opted for the negative split approach and set RowPro paceboat to take me from usual ss pace of 2:14.x in the first 5K to 2:13 and 2:12 in the other half of the row. Felt comfy enough and the pace variation staved off boredom. Hr very low, but I often find this is the case the day after a hard session (a 10K running race yesterday).
Stu 5' 9" 165 lb/75 kg (give or take a couple) born 1960

sdr2017
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by sdr2017 » May 9th, 2017, 6:48 pm

Rowan, nice 10K!

Mike, welcome back to rowing. Being sick sucks.

Cal, nice long rowing sessions. Where did that 10 K come from? I guess you are over-eager to get on the the BPP plan. :-)

BPP Week 8.2
warm up-strapless (see Mike, I listen!)
4 X 1500 M / r3
6:12.2 2:04.0 24 s/m
6:30.6 2:10.2 21
6:44.3 2:14.7 20
6:38.1 2:12.7 21

Averages: 2:10.4, 21 s/m

I went out too fast and then backed off, particularly on the third interval. Since when is 6000 M of rowing intervals, anyway? Just whining. The second one probably hurt the most because I was knackered after the first one. With a sore back and various other excuses, this is the first interval session I have done in a while.
1 min: 302 M; 500M 1:40.9; 1K 3:42.0; 2K 7:51.6; 5K 20:46; 10K 42:45.6; 30 min: 7147M

Scott
59 Yrs, 5' 7" / 177 lbs (170 cm/80 kg)

calalli
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by calalli » May 9th, 2017, 7:37 pm

Everyone seems to be posting positive results, its great to see.

9/5/17 BPP 7.2 7x500M 2'r
- target was same pace as last week 6x500: 1:58.4 . I messed up setting up the workout so did a 519 then a 6x500. The first was right on target, the 6x a little better. Closed with a 2000M at 2:13.2 for cool down

Time Meters /500m Watts Cal/Hr s/m
2:02.9 519m 1:58.4 211 1025 27


11:39.1 3,000m 1:56.5 221 1060 25
1:55.2 500m 1:55.2 229 1087 26 114
1:55.9 500m 1:55.9 225 1073 25 117
1:56.4 500m 1:56.4 222 1063 26 119
1:57.4 500m 1:57.4 216 1042 24 119
1:57.2 500m 1:57.2 217 1046 25 122
1:57.1 500m 1:57.1 218 1049 26 123
cal - age 55 ht 5'10" wt 205 lbs

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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by IefTheChief » May 10th, 2017, 4:06 am

On my hard day yesterday I tried to set a new 2k PR as start for the season and I failed horribly :twisted:

Was a bad idea to do this after my fairly hard 10k (2:06.2) yesterday. My 2k PR is 1:51.2 (3 weeks ago) so plan was to take this as my pace for splits 1-3 and see if I could steal some in split 4. Went too fast in first split, couldn't keep up in 2nd split and collapsed in 3rd one. I was not prepared for this one at all, both mentally and physically.

PP C4W3S5 2k hard

7:40.3 2,000m 1:55.0 27
1:50.8 500m 1:50.8 29
1:51.7 1,000m 1:51.7 29
1:59.8 1,500m 1:59.8 26
1:58.1 2,000m 1:58.1 26

Oh well, 6 weeks ago I was super happy to do a sub 8' 2k so it's all relative isn't it. Today will do a SS 10k @ 2:14.x to finish off cycle 4.

The weight thing is really starting to annoy me very much. I'm stuck at 88kg (started at 102kg in january) already for 4 weeks now. I lost a kilo every week in cycle 1-3 but nothing's happening anymore. I really want to lose another 7 kilos (last bit of belly fat) but the feel the PP alone won't get me there. Will ask in the weight loss group, but if anyone here has a tip I'd be happy to hear.
Ivo Wentholt: 45y, 181cm, 85 kg (103 kg on 6 Jan '17, on a weight mission)
2k: 7:24.8 | 5k: 19:39.0 | 10k: 42:05.4

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hjs
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by hjs » May 10th, 2017, 4:27 am

Up the protein, down the carbs. Also don,t know how tall you are but a bit of muscle don,t hurt the erg. So doing strenghtwork in a form will help.

IefTheChief
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by IefTheChief » May 10th, 2017, 5:32 am

@hjs, thanks. I'm 181cm, 88kg now. Taking a Golden Standard protein shake (24g protein per shake) after every hard session and cut on all the nice bits (alcohol, sugar, snacks). Must say that I haven't taken many protein shakes in this last cycle, but could that really be it? Prefer not to do an all-in diet because I'd like to maintain the lifestyle forever and want to eat with the family. Muscles have really developed bigtime since the start, mostly the shoulders, biceps, legs, just not the belly. Have lost lots of belly fat, but this last little bit just doesn't go. Maybe do some extra ab work?
Ivo Wentholt: 45y, 181cm, 85 kg (103 kg on 6 Jan '17, on a weight mission)
2k: 7:24.8 | 5k: 19:39.0 | 10k: 42:05.4

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hjs
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by hjs » May 10th, 2017, 5:49 am

IefTheChief wrote:@hjs, thanks. I'm 181cm, 88kg now. Taking a Golden Standard protein shake (24g protein per shake) after every hard session and cut on all the nice bits (alcohol, sugar, snacks). Must say that I haven't taken many protein shakes in this last cycle, but could that really be it? Prefer not to do an all-in diet because I'd like to maintain the lifestyle forever and want to eat with the family. Muscles have really developed bigtime since the start, mostly the shoulders, biceps, legs, just not the belly. Have lost lots of belly fat, but this last little bit just doesn't go. Maybe do some extra ab work?
Ok, not that tall. I would not advice shakes.You can buy the same in the supermarket for a lot less. Meat, eggs, dairy in natural form.
Ab work, can strenghten the abs, but won,t do anything for your weight. It simply does not work that way.
Weight is 80/90% foodintake. Protein does cost a good bit of energy to digest, around 30% of its energy content. And it goes relative slowly. Carbs go a lot faster and easier. Fat is also easy, but slower and does not spike our blooddugar
Would indeed keep eating with the family, but simply have a look at your overal eating during the weak. At the moment this is exactly what you need to stay 88 :D . More protein will up your energy demand. And try to limit your carbs, we are used to eating lots of them, if we want fatten up cows or pigs we feed them.... Grains...

In short, look at the overall, make a few tweaks and see how that goes. Use something that works for you on the long run.

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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by Street » May 10th, 2017, 6:08 am

Rowan McSheen wrote:And commiserations to Street on the lurgy (whispers: but I hear Amsterdam is a good place to obtain, erm, allegedly medicinal herbs) :)
Unfortunately I was feeling too rough to enjoy the place properly, always the way!

It was the dreaded endurance intervals for me this morning. It's surprising how much power I've lost by being off for three weeks and I think still recovering doesn't help. I struggled to get anywhere near my previous pace. Last cycle I managed 1:51.9, this time round it was a mission to get 1:54.0 and I was flagging on the last few! Not impressed.

PP 1.3 5x1500m/5' rest. Target 1:51.9
28:30.6 / 7,500m / 1:54.0 / 25
5:39.7 / 1,500m / 1:53.2 / 26
5:39.0 / 1,500m / 1:53.0 / 25
5:40.5 / 1,500m / 1:53.5 / 25
5:47.6 / 1,500m / 1:55.8 / 25
5:43.7 / 1,500m / 1:54.5 / 25

@Ivo, you'll probably find now you've lost body fat and are exercising more you're putting on more muscle which weighs more which is why your weight seems to have plateaued as although you are losing body fat, you are gaining muscle. You also probably need to adjust your calorie intake downwards if you have lost weight as your BMR will have dropped. There are a few calculators around to work out your Total Daily Expenditure from your BMR and if you calorie count your meals it'll probably show you are eating around your TDE amount, hence no weight loss.

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hjs
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Post by hjs » May 10th, 2017, 6:19 am

Street wrote:
@Ivo, you'll probably find now you've lost body fat and are exercising more you're putting on more muscle which weighs more which is why your weight seems to have plateaued as although you are losing body fat, you are gaining muscle. You also probably need to adjust your calorie intake downwards if you have lost weight as your BMR will have dropped. There are a few calculators around to work out your Total Daily Expenditure from your BMR and if you calorie count your meals it'll probably show you are eating around your TDE amount, hence no weight loss.
Sorry, l need to react.

More muscle means a higher BMR, so you would burn more, clearly not the case.

Only in the beginning erging will build some very untrained muscle, but thats stops soon.

Using a general tool to "calculate" your energy needs is very flawed, thats a very rough guide. Calorie counting is useless. Nobody in his right mind will do that for the rest of his life. The mirror, scale and tapemeasure are much more handy.

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