Indoor rowing novice - 2k advice

[Davebar]

I have been using the c2 machine in the gym for the last week and really enjoyed it. I had no previous rowing experience (but have kept fit with cycling and running). 33 yrs old, 78 kg, 1.86m. Did a little reading online about how to use the machines and liked the idea of trying to do a decent 2k time.

Managed 7.20 in my first pull last week then did 30 mins the next day followed by a 2k at 7 min 6 seconds(bit easier second time around as foot position was better lower). 34 spm,drag factor 130. Think I could have gone sub 6 if fresh.

Any advice on what training schedule I could follow to aim to improve my 2k time?

Thanks

[Davebar]

Note I meant sub 7 minutes above (not sub 6!!)

[hjs]

Depends a bit, are you a grouppersone, of so so the pete plan could be for you. If you don,t need a group you can make your own.
In general 80% of your sessions should be longer and aerobic, think 18/25 seconds above your 2k pace. The other 20% should be shorter and faster in interval format.
Building a strong stroke is very usefull, you do this by using a low stroke rate, think 18/21 during your longer sessions.
Longer sessions should be 30 min./10k.
Rowing is a power endurance sport, the fitter you are the better, and you should be strong enough. Not super strong though.

You could also read a bit in the, what have you today, thread. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3&start=15810

[jamesg]

bit easier second time around as foot position was better lower

Being fit already, you'll gain by working on technical aspects like the above which helps posture: rowing is done with the legs, as if lifting something fast off the ground.

The C2 video shows how: http://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/t ... que-videos

Plenty of work at rates around 20, 200W (or more) will provide the other half of the equation, endurance, needed in long races like the 2k.

[tbowles]

I'm quite a novice to rowing. I will hop on the concept 2 at the health club after a run for 10 minutes, once every 2-3 weeks.

For kicks, I decided to go all out for 2k after 3 mile run ... and did it in 7:11.

About me: I'm 48 years old, and 70kg/154lbs (so a lightweight, I gather).

so that's nothing spectacular, but can I expect to take off big chunks of time with some actual rowing training/experience? I am pretty fit as a runner (probably 18:00 5k shape right now ... high 16s if I'm in top running shape).

I perhaps unreasonably hoped that I could lop off a huge chunk of time ... 30 seconds ... if I trained 4-5x/week on the rower (instead of once evvery 2 weeks). But, I am wondering if that is wildly unrealistic since my aerobic conditioning is already pretty good, and it's more about 'rowing-specific' conditioning.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I'm mostly interested in 'testing the waters' for a month to see if I have any 'real talent' (as it seems 6:30 is pretty good if I could ever get there as I hit 50 as a lightweight) ... and if not, I'll stick to my current pattern (as I do enjoy running!).

[sjors]

I perhaps unreasonably hoped that I could lop off a huge chunk of time ... 30 seconds ... if I trained 4-5x/week on the rower (instead of once evvery 2 weeks). But, I am wondering if that is wildly unrealistic since my aerobic conditioning is already pretty good, and it's more about 'rowing-specific' conditioning.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I'm mostly interested in 'testing the waters' for a month to see if I have any 'real talent' (as it seems 6:30 is pretty good if I could ever get there as I hit 50 as a lightweight) ... and if not, I'll stick to my current pattern (as I do enjoy running!).

Give it a try. You already must be very fit!
But running is not rowing.
Muscles have to adjust. Upper Body muscles have to gain strength.
Increasing your PB by 40 seconds in rowing is a lot harder then in running.
To have an idea:
7:10 is 280 W.
6:30 is 377 W.
But since your only row once every two weekes a lot can be improved.
To have in idea of current standings in the 50-age category see: https://log.concept2.com/rankings/2017/ ... L&gender=M

[hjs]

Runners often lack stenght, I think you can expect a good bit of extra, just by getting stronger, fitness will not get much better. 30 seconds is a lot though, given your already good aerobic fitness.

[tbowles]

Thanks for the encouragement and quick responses! That wattage information is an eye opener, as I know how wildly different that feels on a bike (albeit at lower levels on a bike for me!).

So I will give it a shot bit not be too hard on myself if I can't drop so much time.

Now I will drive you guys nuts by revealing that I rowed that 2k at a damper=10 and spm=33. I tried damper=6 and spm=24 yesterday and it felt choppy and weird ... and I just couldn't generate an explosive enough force to get my speed up. I am a weird bird in that I am slow twitch (runner), aerobically fit, strong too but slow, not explosive. I have a lot to learn!!!

Thanks again .... you are generous with your time and advice for such a newby.

[sjors]

Thanks for the encouragement and quick responses! That wattage information is an eye opener, as I know how wildly different that feels on a bike (albeit at lower levels on a bike for me!).

So I will give it a shot bit not be too hard on myself if I can't drop so much time.

Now I will drive you guys nuts by revealing that I rowed that 2k at a damper=10 and spm=33. I tried damper=6 and spm=24 yesterday and it felt choppy and weird ... and I just couldn't generate an explosive enough force to get my speed up. I am a weird bird in that I am slow twitch (runner), aerobically fit, strong too but slow, not explosive. I have a lot to learn!!!

Thanks again .... you are generous with your time and advice for such a newby.

Your welcome.
Strong and slow...that can be a very good combination in rowing.
Damper 10 on itself tels not much as you have probably read. On a clean machine that wil give a Drag Factor of 200, but on a dirty one it will be much lower.
Succes

[hjs]

Thanks for the encouragement and quick responses! That wattage information is an eye opener, as I know how wildly different that feels on a bike (albeit at lower levels on a bike for me!).

So I will give it a shot bit not be too hard on myself if I can't drop so much time.

Now I will drive you guys nuts by revealing that I rowed that 2k at a damper=10 and spm=33. I tried damper=6 and spm=24 yesterday and it felt choppy and weird ... and I just couldn't generate an explosive enough force to get my speed up. I am a weird bird in that I am slow twitch (runner), aerobically fit, strong too but slow, not explosive. I have a lot to learn!!!

Thanks again .... you are generous with your time and advice for such a newby.

Nay, first search for dragfactor, dampersetting in itself says nothing.

All toprowers are slowtwich dominant. If you use a clean machine, you use a very slow drive and very hasty recovery. Should be the other way around.

Drag should be 120/35 ish. For sprints higher.

Re rating, a tt us free rate, on a 2k certainly 30 or more. Training is different, here the goal is going as fast as you can but building a strong stroke, hence a lower pace and lower rating.

Long easy rows are rate 18/21 pace 20 ish seconds above 2k pace.

[tbowles]

I know i'm only getting started, but the combination of your posts are beginning to 'click' for me.

I can feel the soreness in my lower back (not injured, just muscular), so I know I need work there ... as well as glutes, so I see that as a positive sign that there will be some adaptation and improvement (even if my hoped for 30-40 secs ends up being quite unrealistic).

On stroke rates and damper settings ... I will check the actual drag when I next row (probably again tomorrow), as I saw your post after I'd already gone to the 'health club' this morning. They do seem to maintain their machines well, so I suspect that the drag at 10 is inappropriately high, from your comments.

And to follow up, I experimented with an '8' today instead of trying to drop to a '5' (which as I said, was just too different all at once). I do begin to 'GET IT' ... I can feel that I can do a little snappier pull (wrong terms, I'm sure) to get that fly spinning ... and that it keeps spinning a bit better than a '10'. I also experimented with trying a harder 500m (1:40) and then slowing down to 1:50 for the next 500m (average ... more like straight to 2:00 and ramp back to 1:45). I know I'm all over the place, but was happy to be doing the 1000m in between mile runs on the treadmill (around 6:30 mile pace ... or 4:00 1k pace ... so not easy, not hard) ... and be hitting 3:30 - 3:35 in that hard 500m, medium 500m cadence. I kept my stroke rate around 28 ... progress, at least, from the 32-35 prior.

I am sure this all sounds a bit random to you guys, as experienced rowers, but I do feel like I'm just beginning to comprehend this brave new world.

And you will be well-justified to smirk a bit, but I was encouraged that with a bit more learning curve (coordination, knowledge, and actual physical adaptation) that maybe holding that 1:40 for 2k isn't crazy for me ... I'll have to prove that one out, for sure. (Easy to be confident when ignorant!)

Oh and I meant to say THANK YOU for cluing me into the idea that a time trial stroke rate can be in the 30's ... but that training is different, to develop power. This is not like running, which is my main frame of reference, so that little piece of knowledge was an 'ah ha' moment for me. Thanks again!

[G-dub]

One thing that's nice about rowing on the erg is you can practice your powerful stroke and still stay ain an aerobIc training mode. Full powerful drive and then slow going back. Can't really take the same powerful stride while running when running slower for conditioning purposes.

[hjs]

Cheers, you are welcome. Finding things out with a bit if help is best. As a serious runner you know what training is, the difference is the strenght/spm difference. But for the rest its still an endurance sport.
Other difference is, not really moving our own weight. A few kg usefull muscle helps a lot, not like you need to drag that along like in running.

[Livio Livius]

Some good technic videos from Dark Horse rowing https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCshPuX ... BZg/videos

[tbowles]

I checked the drag today at a 10 on the club C2 ... settled in around 186, so I guess that makes them "kinda clean" and confirms that it's just dead wrong.

I tried a '7' damper today but to be honest, felt a bit tired ... mixed in with running today: 3 mi run, 2k row, 3 mile run, 3k row ... since I wasn't feeling particular snappy today, I did slow down the spm and took everyone's advice to focus on power. The 3k was about 22-24 spm (I'm not that consistent yet!), and around 1:54/500m, which I was a little disappointed about ... but I forgive myself, as I adapt ... and I wasn't blown at the end. The best I can say is that it's feeling 'less weird'

I'm feeling a little impatient to try another 2k TT to get under 7:00, with what I've learned in the last WHOLE 5 days (more jokes from me). I'll be patient and wait for a day when I'm feeling good ... and maybe when my lower back muscles aren't sore any more. I will try a 6 or 7 damper ... as I continue to 'walk down' the damper setting, as my power hopefully improves.

Cheers!