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[old] AussieTaff · Post by **[old] AussieTaff** » November 8th, 2004, 7:48 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Bore Da! @ Nov 8 2004, 05:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> It looks like its wednesday at chippy's, coz he always comes here. Shall we do it head to head, or side by side? Head to head will make for interesting tactics, while side by side will be a first class ticket to the emergency room!!!  </td></tr></table> How about best of 3

[old] Prufrock · Post by **[old] Prufrock** » November 8th, 2004, 9:04 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Daren C @ Nov 7 2004, 06:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Attention Taff Attackers! Real name: Nickname/forum handle: Location: (e.g. town/state/country or just county etc.) Occupation: DOB or Approx Age: M/F: Category: HWT/LWT Biog/About You: (a few words or as long as you like about you or your rowing history. Whatever you'd like)  </td></tr></table> Hi Daren Bernard Baptiste Prufrock. Bappa to my friends. UK Software Design Engineer/IT Consultant/Software Developer 10/02/60 - 44 M HWT - Very much so! I've been erging for about six months. Piled on weight and did no exercise over about four years. Rowing will get me fit and help me prepare to play my beloved squash again without shaking the walls every time I move towards the ball. Rowing goals are now sub 7 2K, marathon in April, own my own erg. Looking forward to a solid week of alcoholism after BIRC. I hope this helps. Has anyone heard from Carla? Bernard

[old] Prufrock · Post by **[old] Prufrock** » November 8th, 2004, 9:33 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Mikez @ Nov 5 2004, 06:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Watch out Bernard and Niall, I have both of you and spot number nine in my sights.  </td></tr></table> Just out of interest, Mike, how many metres are you rowing a day? a week? Bernard

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » November 8th, 2004, 10:38 am

Great job this past weekend Taffs. I'm thinking we do this again in a few weeks, and we'll pass MIT for sure. Speedy

[old] Mikez · Post by **[old] Mikez** » November 8th, 2004, 11:06 am

Great work by all this weekend, Bernard, after long layoff I am trying to get 89K a week done more if I feel good. regular rows are 70 min for 14.5 K long time to burn the fat off the buff body way way underneath Carolmac butt fine, but strong desire for mudslides ever time I look at erg My new D is scheduled to arrive tommorow, I will sent specs asap Godfried. mike

[old] Godfried · Post by **[old] Godfried** » November 8th, 2004, 12:41 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (dadams @ Nov 8 2004, 04:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Great job this past weekend Taffs. I'm thinking we do this again in a few weeks, and we'll pass MIT for sure. Speedy </td></tr></table> What's up Dwayne ? Another 67k the last 18 hours ? Forgot to go to sleep ? You don't have to do all 860k we're behind MIT.

[old] Godfried · Post by **[old] Godfried** » November 8th, 2004, 12:45 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Mikez @ Nov 8 2004, 05:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>My new D is scheduled to arrive tomorrow. </td></tr></table> Concept2 must be doing OK, new D's all over the forum.

[old] Niall · Post by **[old] Niall** » November 8th, 2004, 3:25 pm

Okay guys, I need your expert help. Did some 2K "training" today. Did 10x500m alternating 100% effort with 500m active rest at about 70% effort (the 10x500m includes the active rest 500s). I decided to do a pyramid session utilising different DF (139 up to 167 and then back down again). Here are the results: 1) 500m DF 139 - 2:08.2 (blew up after 300m as I went out too fast so we'll call this one the warm up! ) 2a) 500m DF 154 - 1:49.3 2b) 500m DF 154 - 2:03.6 3a) 500m DF 167 - 1:48.8 3b) 500m DF 167 - 1:59.1 4a) 500m DF 153 - 1:45.7 4b) 500m DF 153 - 1:59.2 (27spm) 5a) 500m DF 138 - 1:48.5 (29spm) 5b) 500m DF 139 - 1:59.2 (27spm) 6a) 500m DF 154 - 1:46.9 (30spm) 7) 2000m cooldown 8:03.6 DF 139 27spm As you can see, it's not very structured and sorta played it by ear. I'd like to do something more formal and structured next time. Anyway, I think I've learnt from this that I need to do the 2K at a higher DF than my normal rowing (DF128-130) and my guess is that it should be 153/154. Am I raeding the results right? Incidentally, there was approximately 45-60 seconds gap in between each set while I wrote down the data and set the machine up for the next 500m set. So can I glean anything useful from this session in terms of 2K capability or should a do a more structured session? H-E-L-P!!!

[old] Daren C · Post by **[old] Daren C** » November 8th, 2004, 3:39 pm

I don't know, but I've been wondering if I should raise my drag for racing 2Ks, as well. Normally I just do everything on 120 DF.

[old] Niall · Post by **[old] Niall** » November 8th, 2004, 3:57 pm

Like the Taff Attack logo Daren, very nice. Someone's obviously got more artistic flare than me!

[old] dadams · Post by **[old] dadams** » November 8th, 2004, 4:00 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Niall @ Nov 8 2004, 02:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Okay guys, I need your expert help. Did some 2K "training" today. Did 10x500m alternating 100% effort with 500m active rest at about 70% effort (the 10x500m includes the active rest 500s). I decided to do a pyramid session utilising different DF (139 up to 167 and then back down again). Here are the results: 1) 500m DF 139 - 2:08.2 (blew up after 300m as I went out too fast so we'll call this one the warm up! ) 2a) 500m DF 154 - 1:49.3 2b) 500m DF 154 - 2:03.6 3a) 500m DF 167 - 1:48.8 3b) 500m DF 167 - 1:59.1 4a) 500m DF 153 - 1:45.7 4b) 500m DF 153 - 1:59.2 (27spm) 5a) 500m DF 138 - 1:48.5 (29spm) 5b) 500m DF 139 - 1:59.2 (27spm) 6a) 500m DF 154 - 1:46.9 (30spm) 7) 2000m cooldown 8:03.6 DF 139 27spm As you can see, it's not very structured and sorta played it by ear. I'd like to do something more formal and structured next time. Anyway, I think I've learnt from this that I need to do the 2K at a higher DF than my normal rowing (DF128-130) and my guess is that it should be 153/154. Am I raeding the results right? So can I glean anything useful from this session in terms of 2K capability or should a do a more structured session? H-E-L-P!!!  </td></tr></table> Niall, Let's talk DF eh? I fought and fought with some of the best in the sport (Eric Muller, Jamie Schroeder, Lisa Schlenker, Mike Teti, etc) for a long time about lowering the DF (I started my erging career at a 180). I argued that I had so much power that I was wasting it if I lowered the DF. Boy was I wrong!!!! I would highly recommend, to anyone who is training to do a 2k for time, that the DF be no higher than 130. I personally test in the 120'ish range. Most everyone that I know of that is of a world class level, doesn't have their DF over 120. Why you may ask? Remember the whole idea, when testing for any distance on the erg, is to keep that flywheel spinning as fast as you can, and for as long as you can. The higher the DF, the faster the flywheel slows down between strokes. And unless you're doing a short test piece (500m let's say) a higher DF is going to just plane wear you out. Lowering the DF is going to mean some fundamental changes in your technique. Mainly the speed at which you come out of the catch. And since the majority of the power in the stroke (75 - 90% I've read) comes from the legs, why not use them to the best of their ability? FYI - there are warm up drills that you can do to help with this. The other thing I would change is how you're training for a 2k. In my own personal opinion, doing allot of 500s gets you ready for doing one thing, a great 500. There are many different training plans that are out and available. Depending on how you like to train. The Wolverine Plan, the C2 UK plan (not sure of the name of this one folks, sorry, no offense intended), the Australian Surfboat Plan (the one that I use (I've made modifications to fit my own personal needs)), etc. Hope this helps a bit. Dwayne

[old] Niall · Post by **[old] Niall** » November 8th, 2004, 4:19 pm

Dwayne, Many thanks for the full response you gave to my posting, it's very much appreciated. I hear what you're saying and will certainly change my training accordingly (like you though I'm initially sceptical - nothing personal - as I don't seem to get the power from the lower DFs, guess it's down to practice and technique). Of course what you say about my initial training "programme" makes perfect sense and I'll only dig it out when I want that "great 500m"! Once again, I really appreciate your feedback as I know you've gone through a lot of training and advice to get where you are today. So thank you very much . And finally, yes, it does help...a lot!!

[old] Godfried · Post by **[old] Godfried** » November 8th, 2004, 4:45 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Niall @ Nov 8 2004, 09:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Anyway, I think I've learnt from this that I need to do the 2K at a higher DF than my normal rowing (DF128-130) and my guess is that it should be 153/154. Am I raeding the results right? </td></tr></table> I have the same 'problem'. A low DF for me is D141 (L5) , see <a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?a ... ost&p=7400' target='_blank'>500m PB</a> , for a PB attempt I like to use L6 or higher. I cannot get the average under 1:40 at D141. I expect this can be related to ( lack of proper ) technique , as I know nothing of real rowing. Until I can practice with someone that knows technique : that is not going to change. I realize I may be acquiring a habit that will take a long time to correct - but for the next 30 kg body-weight I am not going to care.

[old] AussieTaff · Post by **[old] AussieTaff** » November 8th, 2004, 6:57 pm

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Niall @ Nov 8 2004, 02:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> Okay guys, I need your expert help. Did some 2K "training" today. Did 10x500m alternating 100% effort with 500m active rest at about 70% effort (the 10x500m includes the active rest 500s). I decided to do a pyramid session utilising different DF (139 up to 167 and then back down again). Anyway, I think I've learnt from this that I need to do the 2K at a higher DF than my normal rowing (DF128-130) and my guess is that it should be 153/154. Am I raeding the results right? So can I glean anything useful from this session in terms of 2K capability or should a do a more structured session? H-E-L-P!!!  </td></tr></table> Niall, 'fraid the only advice I can offer exactly mirrors Dwayne's ! Most of my pieces, regardless of distance, are on a DF of about 117 - 120 (higher end for shorter distances). And I think my recent times indicate that this lowish DF has not been a negative (quite the opposite ?). Low DF feels like on-water rowing in a 'streamlined 8', high DF feels like rowing a 'clinker' tub Unfortunately you have only 2 weeks to BIRC, not much time to experiment. So my cautious (as I am unable to sit down with you as a proper 'coach' should) advice is to :- Next 2 weeks - try the low DF/fast catch approach asap. If not happening for you use a DF of no greater than 140 for BIRC (I suspect anything higher coupled with a high rating will cause a 3rd 500m 'blow up' at race pace) and try to do your 2K training at as LOW a rating as possible. I suspect use of a very high DF results in a rushed rating when at race pace when the piece starts to feel really 'heavy' and the high flywheel resistance too tiring to overcome any other way. A low rating with STRONG catch/pull probably fits better with high DF rowing (same principle as weightlifting - reps are always slow and steady when weight is heavy). Long term - emulate Speedy's technique. No way round this I'm afraid Niall if you are after regular and sustainable improvement in times. If goal is simply to hop on and erg some metres then DF and technique not so relevant. Hope this makes sense Niall and is not too far removed from what you wanted to hear ! And as Speedy said - train for the 2K if race is 2K. This means IMHO a 2K piece every 2nd day, say, and fine tune each time. Treat the 2K as 3 parts - first 400-500m, then middle 1000-1200m then last 400-500m. Each stage has a different 'game plan'. But that's another story best told by the likes of Chris (sub 6:50 Taff). Let me know if above is 'out of court' - I won't be offended Martin PS Bernie - think Carla had a big concert on last weekend, hope she surfaces soon.

[old] AussieTaff · Post by **[old] AussieTaff** » November 9th, 2004, 12:42 am

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td class='genmed'>QUOTE (Godfried @ Nov 8 2004, 03:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I cannot get the average under 1:40 at D141. I expect this can be related to ( lack of proper ) technique , as I know nothing of real rowing. Until I can practice with someone that knows technique : that is not going to change. I realize I may be acquiring a habit that will take a long time to correct - but for the next 30 kg body-weight I am not going to care.  </td></tr></table> Have no fear Godfried, it wll NOT take a long time to correct - only as long as it takes to lean forward and move the lever to "3" Cheers

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