Pete Plan 2017

[JohnAd]

Andy, very nice endurance intervals, feeling like you could go a bit faster at the start is definitely the right way, better that than blowing up in the later reps as I've been doing recently.

Paul, excellent set of sessions, the 5x1.5 stands out though, nicely done.

Rowan, 9 million meters, perhaps there's a record for the most experienced "beginner".

Mike, nice sprinting.

Yesterday 60' SS 2:04.6 @ r21 MHR 137

PP07Lite 6.1 5x1k 1'r
Previous same session 1:50.4
Previous sprint in cycle 1:49.2
Target <1:50.0
01:49.8 r28
01:49.9 r27
01:49.8 r27
01:49.8 r27
01:48.1 r29
Avg 1:49.5 r27 MHR 166

Things starting to come together and back to progress being made, pretty happy with that session.

[Slacker]

BPP 19.3
3x10:00/2:00r
Did these this weekend but didn't get a chance to get online to post.
@2:09.4
@2:07.8
@2:06.6

BPP19.4
30 min row
@2:12.5 r20
This mornings work. Very tiring but not a max effort. Pete's guidance was to drop stroke rate, concentrate on technique, and forget pace. I think I was able to do that for most of it, but seemed difficult to do for the entire piece.

[mdpfirrman]

Hi all

First time posting and new to rowing. I'm starting BPP W10 D1 today after work.

Quick question, it says: "Have a look back through your training diary and see how the pace and rate of these single distance rows has been progressing. You should have been holding the pace the same week by week as the distance has increased, but your stroke rate has probably been dropping gradually too."

I looked back through all of my ss rows over the past 10 weeks, what I see is my 500 splits have gone down, wk 1 5k was 2:23 and my last 8k was 2:03. So there is some improvement in split time, however, the SPMs have stayed pretty much the same....25-27 over the 10 weeks.

This ok????

Thanks

Ben

Ben - there's no really right or wrong on stroke rate. I think that Pete (Marston) meant that for most, it's natural to gradually slow down stroke rate as you get stronger, especially on longer rows. Your stroke rate does seem a bit fast, but if I had to guess, you have a pretty decent aerobic background (either runner, biker or something similar). I would also guess you're shorter in stature. Shorter rowers will naturally have higher SPM than taller rowers. If that's not the case, then it's form or power or a combination of both.

I would recommend rowing unstrapped for your SS rows and really looking at form threads on here. I've seen some really great form threads (posted by others) on YouTube recently (one was a British Olympian). Rowing unstrapped will also hopefully teach you the proper sequencing. Form is something I still work on daily. I'm not quite sure after 3 years of rowing that I still have it right (I'm sure I'm doing a lot wrong).

Regardless, 2:03 for that distance is quite good if you're newer to rowing. When you are referring to SS (or Steady State), are you referring to your easier rows? 2:03 for an easy row is really good if not excellent. Your SS work should be at higher end UT2 - able to talk still comfortably. I like to think not breath out of the nose exclusively but not laboring either with breath. You might be confusing SS work with a hard piece. Perhaps not but if not you're a very solid rower already.

Welcome.

Nice work John A on the intervals! Good job Ben (Slacker). Your times are dropping.

[mudgeg]

BPP Week 17 Optional Day 5

4 x 8min

Was intending to begin Week 18 today but after a very early start and a day full of meetings as well as being pressed for time, I thought I would just do the optional day of the previous week which I had missed. Frankly, 11k after the day I have had seemed a step too far. However, mindful of the fact that I do need to do that tomorrow I paced these very conservatively indeed.

1. 1868 / 8 min / 2:08.4
2. 1876 / 8 min / 2:07.9
3. 1890 / 8 min / 2:06.9
4. 1934 / 8 min / 2:04.1

Modest paces, but without wishing to sound cocky, all within limits even to the point of backing off the pace.

[bwolfjohnson]

Guys, thanks for the response. To fill in the gaps, I am 6'3" and an avid cyclist, I certainly ride my best at a high cadence (RPM).

I have not been using the ss days as easy days. I have been using the pace boat on my monitor and just increasing watts a bit per week....no idea if that is right, but it seems to be paces that I can hold for the duration.

Thanks

Ben

[mdpfirrman]

Guys, thanks for the response. To fill in the gaps, I am 6'3" and an avid cyclist, I certainly ride my best at a high cadence (RPM).

I have not been using the ss days as easy days. I have been using the pace boat on my monitor and just increasing watts a bit per week....no idea if that is right, but it seems to be paces that I can hold for the duration.

Thanks

Ben

Ben, I'm not as familiar with the BPP as some like Paul, but this is from the plan itself - "You’ve been doing these sessions for 6 weeks now, so it’s time to start taking note of some other parameters as well as the pace. Look back in your training log to see the average stroke rate you’ve been doing for these sessions so far. If it’s 24 or under, that’s great, but if it’s over 24, try to focus during this session on making every drive count, and being relaxed and slower on the recoveries. Don’t go for a big jump in rate if you’ve been rowing above 24spm, but try just to lower it by 1 or 2 by slowing down the recovery."

That's under the week 7 or so plan. I assume you're doing the 3 day a week plan (without the optional rows). If so, I think it's probably OK that you're going that fast on the longer days as long as you're not going all out on those days. It should seem hardish but not 100%. Your rate is extremely high for your height. You can look at that two ways - you're in exceptional cardio shape. Or you can look at it as you have a weaker stroke. I think it's probably a bit of a developing stroke along with fantastic cardio base.

The great news is you have a crap ton of potential. I'm jealous. I'd still consider doing at least warm-ups and cool downs unstrapped and then gradually moving most of your longer rows unstrapped. I found the channel that has great videos on YouTube - decentrowing.com. There's one with a British guy that's really great. Also the one of the girl on the dock on the Concept2 is great also. If you've never rowed unstrapped, you probably are a bit off on your sequencing but hard to say.

If you do decide to do more than 3 rows a week, I'd certainly consider slowing the rate down a bit to ensure you're only around 70% to 75% of HRR. I know runners call it the long slow day or LSD (which I always thought was funny). When rowers are referring to SS days (or steady state), most of the time they are referring to recovery rows. An easy rule of thumb is most people row steady state at around 20 to 25 seconds slower than their PB 2K pace. There's some confusing terminology out there. Technically, "steady state" would infer that it's a steady pace you can hold (and I've seen some rowers intend on that definition). To most on here, though, when they refer to SS rows, they mean long, moderately easy rows. That general rule of 20 to 25 secs slower than PB 2K is pretty accurate for me. My PB 2K pace is 1:49. Most of my SS rows (recovery rows) are around 2:10 now. Shorter than 50 minutes a tad faster, longer a tad slower. Hope that long winded answer helped you and didn't confuse you more. I'm a mediocre rower that just has fun with it.

[mdpfirrman]

Good work Gordon on the intervals! Very solid and negative splits.

SS work today for me (back at least trying to row 6 days a week). I have decided to back off the weights on the SS days and lift on the interval days. Worked for me well this year and something's not been working lately so I'm going to go back to lifting a little harder on the interval days and hard distance day and take it easy on the SS days and let my body recover more.

9:00 / 2021 / 2:13.5 / 22
18:00 / 2047 / 2:11.9 / 22
27:00 / 2047 / 2:11.9 / 21
36:00 / 2065 / 2:10.7 / 22
45:00 / 2100 / 2:08.5 / 22

45:00 / 10278 / 2:11.3 / 21 Avg

Pretty easy row today. Just started slow and let the pace come to me.

[hjs]

Hi all

First time posting and new to rowing. I'm starting BPP W10 D1 today after work.

Quick question, it says: "Have a look back through your training diary and see how the pace and rate of these single distance rows has been progressing. You should have been holding the pace the same week by week as the distance has increased, but your stroke rate has probably been dropping gradually too."

I looked back through all of my ss rows over the past 10 weeks, what I see is my 500 splits have gone down, wk 1 5k was 2:23 and my last 8k was 2:03. So there is some improvement in split time, however, the SPMs have stayed pretty much the same....25-27 over the 10 weeks.

This ok????

Thanks

Ben

Cyclists tend to row like we cycle. Drive and recovery 1:1 in time. Rowing is different though, the drive should be firm, the recovery relax. Think 1:2 timewise.
This builds a strong stroke, but the lower spm makes it aerobicly possible to do for longer sessions.

You proberly lack some strenght in your upperbody, this will gradually pick up.

[bwolfjohnson]

Thanks to all for your input.

Just realized that I mistyped my split times.....10 weeks ago the SS rows were in the 2:23 and yesterdays 9500 (my longest) was 2:12.

Yes, I seem to go quick on the drive and fast on the recovery too.

Should I increase my drag factor to slow down and get more upper body work???? The drag factor is 132ish, with the fan set at almost 4.

The 9500k row yesterday my average watts was exactly 150.

Thanks for any input.

Ben

[hjs]

132 is pretty high already, certainly don,t go higher, drag in itself does not alter your stroke. Try strapless rowihg, that does help in your situation.

[bwolfjohnson]

One more thing for the drag factor question, I am 6'3" and 187lbs.

Ben

[Anth_F]

Thanks to all for your input.

Just realized that I mistyped my split times.....10 weeks ago the SS rows were in the 2:23 and yesterdays 9500 (my longest) was 2:12.

Yes, I seem to go quick on the drive and fast on the recovery too.

Should I increase my drag factor to slow down and get more upper body work???? The drag factor is 132ish, with the fan set at almost 4.

The 9500k row yesterday my average watts was exactly 150.

Thanks for any input.

Ben

Thats a good DF reading for damper not even quite on setting 4 (machine must be very clean)!!! How does that drag factor feel in the strokes? If it feels easy and hence why your ratings high and possibly feeling you can't get good flowing rhythm then i would increase it to 140 and see if i could connect better + better rhythm at that DF!!! All about experimenting really, seeing what works best for you. Just my 2 cents worth!!! You're a big guy who could be very powerful so i would imagine a higher DF would suit.

[hjs]

One more thing for the drag factor question, I am 6'3" and 187lbs.

Ben

Does not matter, your current paces and rates are still very soft, this gives a slow drive now and a very rushed recovery. Should be the other way around. Think your current strenght is the limited factor, thats majes you take soft strokes, but relative a lot. In cycling terms you use a hamster stroke. In the longer run you should aim to build a stronger stroke. And stroke is only the drive fase.

[mudgeg]

BPP Week 18 Day 1

11,000m. Target pace of previous 10,500 (Week 16, 2:13.1/ Week 17, 2:14.2)

Actual: 48:58.5 / 11000 / 2:13.5

So, pretty much on the pace and felt in control of that the whole way.

[mdpfirrman]

Thanks Henry for the input. @Ben - Henry knows what he's talking about. He's faster and stronger than a lot of guys and rowing isn't the only thing he does.

The good news, Ben, is if you can do a longer row at the speeds you're doing it at now, once you get your form and power down (not as hard to develop as cardio but it will take some time), you could really be a great rower. Your potential is really good. I'll be lucky to ever break a 7 minute 2K in my life (granted I started at 49, I'm short and I have a crap right knee so I do OK considering). You should smash 7 minutes eventually.

Gordon - you are really getting fit now. At 59, to make the progress you have (and the consistency) is something to be really proud of...