Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[gooseflight]

breaking 38 or so on a 10K

Do you mean 39? A sub 38 10K at around 70% of 2K watts would see someone well under 7 mins.

[mdpfirrman]

breaking 38 or so on a 10K

Do you mean 39? A sub 38 10K at around 70% of 2K watts would see someone well under 7 mins.

Having never done a 2K under 7 minutes I don't really know but I have seen guys that are doing better than a 39 minute 10K struggling to break 7. Typically those are guys that have little power and yet are very strong aerobically. Just an observational thing from this thread and watching others approach a 7 minute 2K. From Paul's law predictor (I assume that's what it's called - the calculator site you have), you'd have to do around a 38:50 or so on a 10K to break 7 minutes on a 2K. I find the rowing predictor uncannily accurate for me across all times. That's the one you created isn't it Roy?

[G-dub]

Well I am at 39:09 for 10K and am struggling but getting closer! It depends on ones orientation too. I am on target from 500 to 1K. My 10K is actually more in line than my 5K. But in the end the only one that matters as it relates to 2K is 2K.

[gooseflight]

That's the one you created isn't it Roy?

I just put a UI on it. Paul Smith conceived it.

For a 7:00 2K the LTB spreadsheet puts a 10K at 71% of 2K watts and predicts similar outcomes -- 39:02 for 10K against Paul's Law at 38:52.

5K at 82% of 2K watts 18:41 / Paul's Law 18:36.

But you're right, there's a lot of variation!

[mdpfirrman]

Well I am at 39:09 for 10K and am struggling but getting closer! It depends on ones orientation too. I am on target from 500 to 1K. My 10K is actually more in line than my 5K. But in the end the only one that matters as it relates to 2K is 2K.

You're right on that Glenn. Roy - I love the calculator you put to Paul's Law. For me, my times are nearly all predictable across the board - and all pretty average!

Did a TT today. I took a pic of it but nothing really impressive at all (forget exact time) but around 19:50 for 5K. I want to start extending my TT sessions. I wonder if that's part of my problem with not having better cardio or better VO2 Max. I used to push 30 minute or even 10K rows. I don't do those very often any more and usually stop at 5K on the PP (because the rest of the plan is so hard and taxing at my age). I was thinking that I'm giving my body a break but other than the intermediate interval sessions, am I doing enough anaerobic threshold work? Just wondering if slowly extending out those longer rows would help me. I just find them painful to be honest after the intermediate session two days prior. I actually more enjoy a tougher rate restricted row on these days (though those aren't easy either but they're different).

[Litewait]

BPP 18.3 30' DF122

30:00.0 6,717m 2:13.9 146 802 25 139
6:00.0 1,311m 2:17.3 135 764 25 124
12:00.0 1,318m 2:16.5 137 771 25 132
18:00.0 1,318m 2:16.5 137 771 25 134
24:00.0 1,346m 2:13.7 146 802 26 147
30:00.0 1,423m 2:06.4 173 895 28 161

Per Pete first 20' at 11k pace, and increase it from there. Wasn't terrible, should have paced at 2:16 to start.

@andy - just flying.
@McK - welcome aboard, after 3 months you are easily breaking 8', I am 9 months in and I am just waiting till the day I think I can break 8'.
@paul - going to rename you "the grinder" attacking everything.
@mike - probably too ignorant to ring in on pushing the longer rows, but I already had the idea in my head that is the only way I am going to improve my intervals. Of course I am not on the PP and can't imagine the beating I'd take on that regimen.

[hjs]

breaking 38 or so on a 10K

Do you mean 39? A sub 38 10K at around 70% of 2K watts would see someone well under 7 mins.

Having never done a 2K under 7 minutes I don't really know but I have seen guys that are doing better than a 39 minute 10K struggling to break 7. Typically those are guys that have little power and yet are very strong aerobically. Just an observational thing from this thread and watching others approach a 7 minute 2K. From Paul's law predictor (I assume that's what it's called - the calculator site you have), you'd have to do around a 38:50 or so on a 10K to break 7 minutes on a 2K. I find the rowing predictor uncannily accurate for me across all times. That's the one you created isn't it Roy?

You guys keep on calling it a predictor. Its NOT, it was a tool to see how ones strenght was devided over the distances, and used to set ones training. It was never ment as a predictor. Also 500 and very long stuff was excluded, I think 1k is even to short.
Also Paul used a very specific training. Zero, low rate work, zero slow work. 80/90% was 10 meters per second and strapless, "hitting the zero" Only races where strapped.
Speedwork was most in the form of bumps. Say 8k, with every k een faster piece. Basepace kept 10 spm, which is never slow.
Training this way is very much focussed on building a strong strapless 6k, often included with "speedbumps"

[gooseflight]

You guys keep on calling it a predictor. Its NOT

If you want to be pedantic it isn't a Law either.

Never mind, the correlation Paul's formula and the LTB spreadsheet, for example, is quite close, Both provide useful pointers to what outcomes might be expected when trying to establish a target for one distance based on another.

[hjs]

You guys keep on calling it a predictor. Its NOT

If you want to be pedantic it isn't a Law either.

Never mind, the correlation Paul's formula and the LTB spreadsheet, for example, is quite close, Both provide useful pointers to what outcomes might be expected when trying to establish a target for one distance based on another.

Preferably so yes Its HIS law, with his context. No what you guys make of it

[Citroen]

It was never a law, it was only ever a theory that a balanced rower should have even values around double the time plus five for all of the ranking events. It failed to take height, mass or gender into account so could never be a law (in the way of Newton's three, somewhat discredited by quantum theory, laws).

[Litewait]

@mike - I saw your comment about enjoying your "restricted rate rows". Normally I'd rate 24/25 on a 10k which I know is bad, per Pete's comment for Week 18.4 (below).
I'd like to try rowing at 20spm but at DF123 (normal DF), but afraid I'll just burn out. Tempted to try it, but I bet I end up rating up to 2:20 as well as having to drop the DF to survive. Is it worth it?

"Try restricting the stroke rate to a strict 20spm for the first half of this row, working on technique. From half way allow yourself to increase the rate only with a corresponding increase in pace."

[Slacker]

@John, I have to live up to my screen name somehow. Just kidding, I meant to come back but got tied up with other things.

Seems it is a busy time for everyone, but there are still a good handful of people showing up and putting in some good work. Good job everyone.

BPP 16.1 & 16.2

10,500m @ 2:13.3 r20

5 x 1500m /3'r
@2:05.5 r23

The longer distances are feeling better and going a little bit quicker. That's a good feeling.

[Slacker]

Tim,
I don't read that the same way. I don't think your 24/25 is bad. Pete's comment about going to 20 spm he is implying that it will be slower, but not to worry about that. Day 4 in general for the BPP seems like a recovery type of day (if you read through several of these, he usually says take it easy, or don't worry about the rate).

[mdpfirrman]

Tim,
I don't read that the same way. I don't think your 24/25 is bad. Pete's comment about going to 20 spm he is implying that it will be slower, but not to worry about that. Day 4 in general for the BPP seems like a recovery type of day (if you read through several of these, he usually says take it easy, or don't worry about the rate).

I agree Ben. Tim - you're shorter like me. It will be natural for you to "rate up" more. I just think that Pete was emphasizing don't get sloppy on the front end of any row, especially free rate rows. I used to be all over the place on any row over 30'. Now I pretty much have decent (not great) form throughout the row and when I'm tired, I really watch form especially. I think that's all he's trying to say. Use the longer or SS work to work on form. Form tends to go out the window, so to speak, on the intervals. Making sure you have good form (along with long powerful strokes) is just great practice on longer rows. Plus it tends to keep your HR in check.

[Street]

Another is what is your 1K X 5 times (if it's 1:45 or under pace you're right there).

Not quite, I could just about manage 1:50 on the 4x1km today so still a way to go!

BPP 18.5 4x1km/r3'
14:41.6 / 4,000m / 1:50.2 / 27
3:39.2 / 1,000m / 1:49.6 / 28
3:41.4 / 1,000m / 1:50.7 / 27
3:42.9 / 1,000m / 1:51.4 / 26
3:38.1 / 1,000m / 1:49.0 / 26

8 days done straight, christmas day and boxing day off, happy christmas to everyone.

Sounds like you've earned those days off!

I'm having a couple days off myself, with maybe just some light work next week before I go away climbing for a few days over New Year. I'll be back on the BPP next year.

Hope everyone has a great Christmas!