Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[Litewait]

BPP Week 15.2 5 x 750m

HD twice once on interval 2 and next on interval 1. Pace was 2:03 but I felt really off. May tackle it tomorrow or just move on. May bank some SS meters tonight as punishment.

@glenn - nice body of work especially the PBs, looking forward to seeing how your race goes. I really appreciate all your advice and encouragement, going to finish the BPP for sure and then I will probably be tracking you down on where to go from there.

[JohnAd]

Gordon, the 1k intervals are hard, slightly too long to be like the other sprint intervals and too short to be treated like the endurance ones, they do seem to be the best predictor of 2k times though and you look to be very close to being able to attack that 8min 2k soon.

Tim, don't let the intervals beat you, have another go today and keep it slow if you have to but finish them.

Glenn, I've really enjoyed watching your progress and thank you for all the encouragement and advice along the way. Good luck with the prep for your race, I really hope you can turn all that effort into some
great PBs.

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

John great waterfall there. Whilst it obviously does vary from person to person given Pete's notes in the PP of that session being 5k+1 does point to your 18:20 target being attainable tomorrow - I certainly think you should be entering that effort optimistically - good luck with it!

Glenn has been awesome doing the PP at the same time as you - your enthusiasm (getting in with the first 8x500 back in August!), encouragement for me and others and general contribution to the thread have been a huge part of why I enjoyed it so much - and obviously great improvement on almost all of the sessions. I did notice you'd snuck in a UT1 workout in the 'what training ...' thread and thought there might be changes afoot! What settings did you use for the plan - assume you've got a longer cycle set up and just using the last 8 weeks before your race? Certainly plenty of time between now and then to get the enthusiasm back!

[mdpfirrman]

Glenn - really enjoyed watching your progress. Also, I think you've got a much better attitude this year about the training than year's past (at least last year I know). You're such a competitor that the PP, in particular, is tough for you. You demand so much progress out of yourself and keep in such great shape that you want big improvements. Relishing / appreciating the small improvements is something that I've not seen you do as much of in that past. That's huge progress. I only point this out because I'm guilty of it too, so I know how you feel. I'm hoping like anything you break that 7 minute mark and just enjoy the training from there. Not many guys your age are in as great as shape as you are and there's something to be said for that. Also, even though I was the one pushing to start the thread, you, Jack and John A have been REALLY helpful in being positive and helping out the PPB folks. Wouldn't have been nearly as enjoyable without you so I'm really glad you participated.

Gordon / Tim - don't beat yourselves up. You'll have good and bad days. Tim - your traveling had a lot to do with that I'm sure. Gordon - 1000m intervals on little rest is hard work. Like Paul said, just getting it done is fantastic. You've been really consistent and it will show soon more than you know.

Paul - stead work and progress!

[jackarabit]

Mike, you took on the chore of keeping the big bus moving toward the common goal and stuck to doing just that ALL the time. Kept your powder dry but away from the flame when one or another of us got a bit sparky. Pretty damn amazing considering that health problems got in the way of your personal training and goals. Kick ass at the RCIRC, buddy! Jack

[mudgeg]

Mike - completely second the views of Jack in that post above. Very best of luck in your race this weekend.

Beginners PP Week 13 Day 3

2 x 15min targeting same pace as Week 12 3 x 10min (average 2:10 for me).

1. 3449 / 15min / 2:10.4
2. 3486 / 15min / 2:09.0

Legs felt very tired and heavy after the 4 x 1000m yesterday. The erg is a funny thing - 2:12 for 10k on Monday and felt like I could have done twice the distance. Three days later a struggle to do a third of that and not much faster!

[mdpfirrman]

Mike, you took on the chore of keeping the big bus moving toward the common goal and stuck to doing just that ALL the time. Kept your powder dry but away from the flame when one or another of us got a bit sparky. Pretty damn amazing considering that health problems got in the way of your personal training and goals. Kick ass at the RCIRC, buddy! Jack

Thanks Jack but there were a couple of weeks there I admit being green with envy of others' times / progress. I'm back on the saddle now so to speak and I've readjusted my own expectations for this year's times and I'm just planning on having fun with it now. You do a nice job keeping everyone cool and level headed too. Thanks for that!

[Litewait]

BPP Week 15.2 5 x 750m r2' DF119 (redo)

15:23.5 3,750m 2:03.1 187 943 29
3:05.5 750m 2:03.6 185 936 29 142
3:05.0 750m 2:03.3 187 943 28 148
3:05.1 750m 2:03.4 186 939 30 154
3:05.1 750m 2:03.4 186 939 30 158
3:02.8 750m 2:01.8 193 963 30

Decided I'd rather do a 3x2000 as opposed to anything with 750 in it ! Tried to do what Pete said though. Realizing for a noob like me I am trying to predict the rate too much need to just start out quick and settle in to a pace that feels right.

@john - thanks for the boost you are right HD is way worse that just surviving no matter the rate.

A couple questions:
1. On these short intervals is the goal to up the SPM as high as possible as long as you have the wind to manage it?
2. I am using the plan of maybe 5-10 hard strokes then try to settle into a rational pace, is that a good strategy? It seems I have so much energy the first 3rd I end up below 2:00 and then slow creep back up which seems horribly wrong.
3. How would you vets warm up for this interval? Rip Van Winkle W/U surely doesn't work.

[mdpfirrman]

Tim,

As for SPM, height determines that a lot. I'm slightly taller than you and I like to do a 2K at around 27 / 28. I wish I could do it at 30, but I can't yet. Ideally, SPM comes with time. The better cardio shape you are in, the higher you can rate (ideally). If you watched Rohan's video, guys in that were lightweight (like you) and were holding mid 30s for the entire 2K race. SPM differentiates the REALLY great guys from the average guys like you and I. Only lots of meters will improve someone's ability to increase SPM because VO2 Max is the limiting factor. Volume (meters) and doing a threshold piece once a week (TT) will improve your VO2 Max. For now, just do what's comfortable.

As for the start, it depends. I like to finish a piece faster than I started (negative splits). Sounds like you are fading at the end (not by choice). That means your cardio just isn't quite there yet. I like to start out quick and settle in but I like to do around 1/6 of the piece faster to start (or so). So for me, a 750m, I'd probably do 100m to 150M at an accelerated pace and then settle in (around 10 to 15 strokes). Since you're "flying and dying", which refers to slowing at the end, I wouldn't recommend that. It would just increase your fatigue and you would "die" quicker. For now, 5 to 10 strokes is max of probably what you want to do faster until you can start negative splitting.

As for W/U. Shorter intervals require the most W/U. 2K is recommended (at least) for shorter intervals (1K and below). For intermediate, I usually do 1K or so (but even that is not that much). For TT (timed longer sessions like 5K / 30' / 10K), a shorter W/U is OK (I honestly don't usually do a W/U for a TT but I should do 1K at least). For a race, most recommend the Eddie Fletcher W/U. You can Google it and find it but it's roughly 20 minutes of W/U, mostly slow, with some 10 second or so bursts. Also, don't forget a C/D. That can be shorter but I get my best stretches AFTER rowing. I spend probably 4 to 5 minutes after every row stretching. I use the rower itself as a stretching tool (an idea I borrowed from Spinning for years). I do 3 stretches - I sit back all the way (out of the straps) and lean forward using my arms for balance for a hamstring stretch -- I've gotten so limber at this I can pretty much touch my nose to my knees -- (hold for 30 to 40 secs). Then I cross one leg at a time (ankle resting on the knee) and shift forward and lean forward (I pull myself gently into my legs and keep my back straight while doing this - pulling basically on my legs with my arms to deepen the stretch). Really nice glute and back stretch. I sometimes also do a quad stretch by just pulling one leg back with the other leg on the floor. I finish by using the rail to balance and twisting in my seat until I look behind me each direction and hold that for 30 seconds. Since I've started doing those stretches, I have a lot less injuries / pulled muscles / back problems. Stretch when warm!

[Litewait]

@paul,mike - Thanks for the guidance I'll turn myself into a lab rat and see what comes of it. What you are saying makes complete sense.

[gooseflight]

Tim,

These are 'race pace' intervals so should replicate your 2K stroke rate so not as high as you can go. As mentioned, rate too high and your aerobic fitness will be the determining factor. You just have to find the rate that's most comfortable for you to maintain to get to the end of a set. For a given pace it's better to rate lower than higher.

There are two ways to row intervals: a) Five or so good strokes to reach target pace then sit on target pace for the duration; or b) a strong first 100m (~10/12 strokes) at a faster rate/pace before settling in at the rate and pace you intend to finish, i.e., letting the average drift back towards target from a fast start. You can try both during a session to see what's the most comfortable.

I would go for a 1K to 1.5K warm up, not too slow because you want to get your HR and respiration up. Within that you should aim to do two or three power 10s (10 strokes/100m) after 500m. These should be at target pace (or faster) and race rate. Pause for around 30 secs after your warm up. (You will certainly be warmed-up after the first interval!)

And don't forget a slow cool down for around 1K. Ideally this should also include a couple of power 10s to flush lactate.

[Street]

The erg is a funny thing - 2:12 for 10k on Monday and felt like I could have done twice the distance. Three days later a struggle to do a third of that and not much faster!

I know that feeling this week! I breezed the 10k on Monday, then yesterday struggled on the slow 8k. I think it all catches up to me around Thursday but I get my second wind on Friday as it's pretty much the weekend!

[lindsayh]

A couple questions:
1. On these short intervals is the goal to up the SPM as high as possible as long as you have the wind to manage it?
2. I am using the plan of maybe 5-10 hard strokes then try to settle into a rational pace, is that a good strategy? It seems I have so much energy the first 3rd I end up below 2:00 and then slow creep back up which seems horribly wrong.
3. How would you vets warm up for this interval? Rip Van Winkle W/U surely doesn't work.

good advice above Tim - my $0.02 worth
1) I too don't think you should rate as high as possible but use the intervals to learn to rate up to ideal 2km sr which will be probably 30-35 depending on fitness etc
If you rate too highly then you will arguably be using a weak stroke rather than a stronger one - try to be strong with a full stroke - as you get a faster sr you will often end up short stroking to get back to the catch. Look at watts/stroke as a guide for how you are going.

2) If you are training to sprint then for a 500 you should eventually be able to hold say 40sr.
For me I like getting to and under target on the interval pretty quickly because you are always stronger at the beginning and then you have control and can bleed off pace a little and stay on target. IMO the trick is to concentrate on pace and don't relax too much - it is hard to play catch up at the end.

3) Warm up and cool downs are both important and IMO you can argue the c/d maybe more so. The shorter and harder the piece is the longer and harder the w/u should be. The preparation for a 2km race/TT should be maybe 4-5km and 20min such as Fletcher recommends with some strong stuff. For general training I have for some years now "stolen" the habits of some Canadians who shall remain nameless and do 2k both before and after most sessions @2:15. The Canadians used to (probably still do) reward themselves with a beer if the nail 2:15.0. Not needed for long slow pieces I guess. If you are doing a serious interval session then add a harder 1k to the initial 2k. I agree that post exercise stretching is a good idea if done properly (although the science is not so great I understand) but there is probably no real benefit on pre exercise stretching.

[gooseflight]

Tim word to the wise though guys, a 750m rep session is not a 500m rep session
so going first 100m much faster than pace is going to spell

Nope, different energy system. It's only 10 strokes. The rate is initially high and the wheel RPM is high also. Takes four or five strokes to get underway anyway and there's plenty of rest.

EDIT: and again you must consider watts not pace. A few seconds faster at 2:0x is different to a few seconds faster at 1:4x.

[gooseflight]

As ever Paul you completely miss the point

And Paul, please, you have never done 750 repeats at 1:46 average.

Your point about not doing a fast initial 100m is irrelevant. This is a training piece not a race. You don't start a 2K five or six times. You might as well argue that you don't take a few minutes rest in the middle of a 2K either.

If you haven't done it, please don't preach and stop quoting words that Pete never uttered or wrote