Can an overly long stroke be more efficient?

[Gammmmo]

After watching some footage of me during a race it was very noticeable how long my stroke was in comparison to many others. Thing is, when I try to shorten the stroke (mainly not come so far forward and the rate naturally rises slightly) the aerobic demands feel higher for the same pace. Is it possible that body morphology plays a role in the most efficient stroke for an erger (my arms and legs are long for my height, and therefore obviously short torso), or it is simply that I ought to shorten my stroke and expect efficiency gains to kick in after a while?

In addition I sometimes see people lengthen the stroke at the other end by more lean back or bringing the handle towards the throat...can that actually work for some or have they simply not learnt optimium form?

[hjs]

After watching some footage of me during a race it was very noticeable how long my stroke was in comparison to many others. Thing is, when I try to shorten the stroke (mainly not come so far forward and the rate naturally rises slightly) the aerobic demands feel higher for the same pace. Is it possible that body morphology plays a role in the most efficient stroke for an erger (my arms and legs are long for my height, and therefore obviously short torso), or it is simply that I ought to shorten my stroke and expect efficiency gains to kick in after a while?

Offcourse, there are differences. Often lightweights tend to use a longer stroke. Proberly due to a less heavy upperbody.
If you look at races all kinds if techniques come along. Otw, a bit less so, here you have use a stroke everybody in that boat uses.

[lindsayh]

In addition I sometimes see people lengthen the stroke at the other end by more lean back or bringing the handle towards the throat...can that actually work for some or have they simply not learnt optimium form?

The conventional wisdom as I understand it is that the longer stroke is less rather than more efficient and that you are better off especially for 2k and above with a traditional "correct" technique. (Tho the sprints are different of course) There is a risk of injury if you are closing your knees and going too far forward. AS Henry says there are a lot of different techniques at races but I have never seen one of those pulling the handle high up to the neck with a lean back do really well. IMO it is all about the most efficient way of transferring the power from legs/arms to the handle and the traditional technique seems to be the best way of doing that. (Have a look at the people who generally do well in Boston for example though the odd exception proves the rule)

[gooseflight]

If you play around with the high arm draw and keep an eye on the monitor you can see it has very little effect. You gain a little in length but then you have to recover from an exaggerated back lean, which takes energy and makes for a messy recovery. It also puts the wrists into an awkward position which is very uncomfortable on longer rows.

[Anth_F]

Thing is, when I try to shorten the stroke (mainly not come so far forward and the rate naturally rises slightly) the aerobic demands feel higher for the same pace.

You're not giving yourself near as much recovery time thats why!!! Messed about with not coming as far forward before, i actually feel a stronger drive like that!! However, the calm breathing starts to diminish fast like this.

Stick to longer stroke that you used to. If you're not gaining anything by doing it!!!

End of the day, it's all about efficiency.

[MarkEg]

I'm not sure it's a simple as more recovery time. After all, the extra force required to stay at the same pace with less strokes will surely negate that?

[Anth_F]

Well that was from my own personal experiences.

I found that i could keep same pace with calmer breathing at 24 spm, than what i could by not coming as far forward to the catch and rating 25 spm's with occasional 26's. The only benefit i felt was a sense of stronger drive but that was probably placebo as nothing was evident from that on the monitor.

[Tim K.]

After watching some footage of me during a race it was very noticeable how long my stroke was in comparison to many others. Thing is, when I try to shorten the stroke (mainly not come so far forward and the rate naturally rises slightly) the aerobic demands feel higher for the same pace. Is it possible that body morphology plays a role in the most efficient stroke for an erger (my arms and legs are long for my height, and therefore obviously short torso), or it is simply that I ought to shorten my stroke and expect efficiency gains to kick in after a while?

In addition I sometimes see people lengthen the stroke at the other end by more lean back or bringing the handle towards the throat...can that actually work for some or have they simply not learnt optimium form?

What do you call "overly long"? Can you post up the video(s)?

I have defended the position that a longer stroke length (based on morphology and good form, not stretching way out) is more efficient. I have supported and explained why else where, some of which has been deleted.

What you are describing IMO is at least partially attributable to loss of efficiency due to reduced stroke length.

Morphology absolutely plays a role. If your a knuckle dragger then you inherently have the ability to produce the longest and most efficient linear motion. If you have a long torso for your height you have to wag that thing and all its mass back and forth for relatively little linear motion.

You sir have a pretty high output for your mass. You kick my ass and I try hard. You could try changing your stroke but I dont think you would find long term gain.

$0.02

[G-dub]

The only thing I wonder about, and its hard to determine without a video, is if there is over compression at the catch it seems like the first part of the drive is not very efficient since you have to unwind from being compressed. Its sort of like the difference between a squat with ass to heels vs a squat down to bench height.

[Cyclingman1]

Looking at force curves may be helpful. Look at the total area under the curve. If there is quite a long period at the end, or at the start for that matter, that has little height, that is inefficiency, which may be due to a long stroke. Keeping stroke length a little shorter, eliminating relatively useless drive time, may be better. In general, it would seem that an overly long stroke would be inefficient.

[jamesg]

After watching some footage of me during a race it was very noticeable how long my stroke was in comparison to many others

Well done you, it means you can keep the rating down and so reduce inertial power losses, with consequent higher efficiency.

The others were probably not using their legs or just increasing the rating for the sake of it.

You can judge your stroke by looking at the Watt/Rating ratio, and your overall performance using Watts/Weight.

[hjs]

After watching some footage of me during a race it was very noticeable how long my stroke was in comparison to many others

Well done you, it means you can keep the rating down and so reduce inertial power losses, with consequent higher efficiency.

The others were probably not using their legs or just increasing the rating for the sake of it.

You can judge your stroke by looking at the Watt/Rating ratio, and your overall performance using Watts/Weight.

dispate all those disadvantages they raced faster though

[Gammmmo]

in my defence Henry, I think at least some of the others had been erging for longer and most (all?) were younger. not using that as an excuse (it's up to me to close the gap however I can and join the race ) but obviously lots of factors..

I'll post up the video from the event and people will be able to look (shudder?) at my technique

[Anth_F]

I personally think your erg performances speak for themselves in your sig

When you take into account how long you have actually been back into rowing, those times are remarkable.

[Gammmmo]

I personally think your erg performances speak for themselves in your sig

When you take into account how long you have actually been back into rowing, those times are remarkable.

cheers Anth, but like all endurance sports junkies, I am never 100% happy and always wanting to be at the next level. if you're in such sports to compete (and I totally understand that isn't everyone's number one reason) it's a dangerous place to be if you're not of that mindset IMO.