Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[JohnAd]

PP 4.3.6 SS 60' 2:05.4 r20 MHR 142

[Litewait]

BPP Week 12.4 8000m DF119

8,000m @ 2:18.9 SPM 23 HR 145

SS high UT2, now I have a data point for rowing in in AM (hate it) and working on 4 hours sleep!

[G-dub]

Felt good this morning. Makes me realize I wasn't feeling great this week.

[mudgeg]

PP Beginners Week 11 Optional Day 5

4 x 1500m. Plan says same average pace as the last time we did this session (Week 8) but speed up on the last interval. So for me target was 2:04.0

1. 6:12.3 / 1500 / 2:04.1
2. 6:13.6 / 1500 / 2:04.5
3. 6:11.8 / 1500 / 2:03.9
4. 6:05.1 / 1500 / 2:01.7

[john_n]

Jack - Thanks for the additional information regarding heart rate. [jackarabit writes: “Check out this post by another septuagenerian with a remarkably clear understanding of physics, mathematics, OTW rowing, spreadsheet ops and probably a dozen other subjects: “] It seems to be a topic always ripe for discussion. After reading this recent exchange and the information that link pointed to, I decided to slightly and gradually tweak the effort level from what I’ve recently been doing in the PP recovery sessions and I started with the one done on Nov 11th. That’s nice work and a pretty set of graphs, for the 30 minutes on November 11th.

Glenn - Thanks for the comments. I’ve been sorting through photos now and then. When I find a more recent one than the previous, I try it out. The current one is probably the most recent, taken when in a restaurant with a daughter and her boyfriend across the table and my wife sitting next to me (she was trying to stay out of the photo and that’s her arm in a blur of movement in the bottom right corner). Nice 3x20’ on Nov 12th, Glenn, with perfectly consistent pacing for all three.

Your 4 x 1K impresses me but I can understand how you feel about what happened with the last one. What was your target pace supposed to be for the first 3 of the 1Ks? I notice that the pace of the second is 2/10 second faster than the first and the third is 3/10 second faster. At that pace, each tenth of a second increase is about 0.8 watts, which is 100% more power difference from 1/10 second slower, than the difference between a pace like 2:00.8 and 2:00.9, where one tenth of a second is only about 0.4 watts. Exponential increases in power with incremental increases in pace.

Had to laugh at your comment of Nov 13th, “Felt good this morning. Makes me realize I wasn't feeling great this week. ” …. reminded me of someone who said, “I didn’t know how much my head hurt, until I stopped hitting it against the wall.”

Lindsay - I couldn’t agree with you more, about the 220-age formula being virtually worthless. But until very recently (Nov 10th recently) I thought maybe it was okay to use it in the Karvonen formula for calculating HRR… but it’s just as worthless there, as it is by itself. So I’m back to using only actual HRmax and actual RHR for getting HRR using the Karvonen method.

It’s been great to see your work and read your comments here in the forum Lindsay and I join the others who’ve said they hope you continue being active in the forum, or at least to continue “documenting” your training here. I vicariously enjoy your competition in the races. You are the one who inspired me to turn away from “taking it easier” and moving away from harder rowing and helped me discover the Pete Plan and this area of the forum. Your 6:49.5 SB 2K (and Australian Record!) is another solid part of your excellent foundation-building for BRIC.

Paul - Thanks regards the 10K. I enjoyed it a lot and already want to do it again, at a slightly higher pace target. Way to go, good work on your Nov 11th 4 x 1700.

Ben - good work on the 10K and especially that you felt a lot better and more in control than you anticipated. If you do a warm up day before “getting back in the swing” after you return, I’d count that as rowing credit of an improvisational nature - all good, in other words. You’ve got to pay attention to how you feel and experiment accordingly. Paul’s quote of what Pete says about taking a week off is good food for thought too, in addition to how you feel. Regarding “really” getting my HR going - the higher the HR, the longer the afterglow. Nice 4x1000m on BPP 13.2 and nice that your last 1K was faster but your rating was 1 SPM lower - plenty of torque left at lower “RPMs”. Nice 8K Nov 13th but not nice, working on 4 hours sleep.

Mike - Thanks, re the 10K. I already want to do another one on the “hard distance” day, but also would like to do another hard 6K or 5K so don’t yet know what it will be this coming week. Mexico should be happy about the soccer game, if not the election, since Mexico won by a score of 2 to 1.

Piers - Thanks, but that 10K is only SB, not PB. It feels like a good distance for a Pete Plan hard day and I enjoy it a lot more than a 2K TT, which i don’t find myself wanting to do again the next day. Very nice work on the JFDI 6,344m hard distance. If you don’t mind a higher DF like 135 or so, it will bring your stroke rate down a bit.

Gordon - If your legs feel tired and you were to do the 8K at a pace slower than 2:19.9, would your HR (%HRR) be too low? Nice work on the Nov 12th Optional Day - your legs must have felt better, if you were hungry for an extra, optional serving of 25 minutes at a brisk 2:10.5. Happy for you. Way to go, with your 4 x 1500 (optional day 5) posted on Nov 13th.

John A - Very nice 6,344 session. You really got it wound up, especially in the last 344. On the Nov 12 (posted date) PP 4.3.6 SS 60’ 2:05.4 r20 MHR 142 … how did that feel? (I’ve only done r20 for 30 minutes, at a slower pace of 2:07 and remember how I felt.)

Nick - You’re welcome, if anything I said was of benefit. I tend to use too many words. The way you describe how you’re feeling is the best evidence it’s doing very good things for you.

Tim - Good work on the BPP 3 x 10’. You’re on track to do better than me, it just takes time. You’re getting a good head start, starting training now. I didn’t start any structured training until this year, and didn’t know what a great thing I’d been missing until this year also. There are currently two 72 year-old Australian lightweights who have faster 10K times in the rankings than I do! But then there’s Jim Grattan, another 70 year old, who is solidly in first place in the 10K after he did the 10K at a pace almost the same as my recent 2K TT. He’s HWT, but that pace for 10K is “world-class” as far as I’m concerned.

Street - very nice 4x1500, 3x10’, “nice lazy 8,000” and excellent that you see so much improvement and are "chomping at the bit" to get going with the next intervals session. Your mind is being trained to enjoy it - more indication that Pete Plan is good for all systems, body and mind.

Rohan - Get well soon. Netflix … needs documentaries or movies about rowing.

Pete Plan sessions completed since Nov 10th:
Nov 11 Cycle 2 Week 2 Day 6
8K SS, 37:20.5 @2:20, r24 SPM, 45.4% HRR
Straps loose, DF 135
After recent discussion with Jack and others re HR, I thought maybe my HR in recent PP recovery sessions (46.8%HRR) and therefore my effort had been too low. So for the Nov 11 PP recovery session I changed pace target from 2:20.5 to 2:20 to see what difference it would make on HR. It caused no increase and was 2 BPM lower at the slightly faster average pace, which amounted to 45.4%HRR. Therefore for the next one I’ll try increasing target pace another 1/2 second, and keep increasing recovery 8K target pace gradually, to find what it needs to be to get HR closer to 65-70% HRR during recovery sessions.

Nov 12 Rest Day; no rowing

Nov 13 Cycle 2 Week 3 Day 1
4 x 1K
previous average pace for this piece in previous cycle: 1:54.5. Average pace today= 1:52.5
Straps loose, DF 135, no warmup 15 minutes warm down

[jackarabit]

John N.: Check out this thread about a KIWI HR zone generator posted by AussieLuke.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=151164

[john_n]

John N.: Check out this thread about a KIWI HR zone generator posted by AussieLuke.

Thanks, Jack.

There's the UT1, UT2, AT, TR and AN figures as plain as can be. Someone who's not totally certain of their HRmax, like me, can always lowball the HRmax number to be on the safe side. And then revise it upward later if its ever discovered to be higher.

On a related thought ... someone in one of the threads mentioned that "there are indications" that rowing training can raise a person's HRmax. That would be arduous to prove ... or disprove. But it's an interesting thought. I do know for a fact that endurance training at even the lowest, slowest levels will lower a person's HRresting.

[JohnAd]

John A - Very nice 6,344 session. You really got it wound up, especially in the last 344. On the Nov 12 (posted date) PP 4.3.6 SS 60’ 2:05.4 r20 MHR 142 … how did that feel? (I’ve only done r20 for 30 minutes, at a slower pace of 2:07 and remember how I felt.)

Nice work on the 4x1k, following the start off at the average from last time and push on the last perfectly. Looks like you faded a bit on the last rep but you must have been really going for it that first 500 to still end up with 1:47.
My SS wasn't a deliberate r20 session, I was just looking for something that felt good but not too easy and that's what I settled into, probably because I was used to the rhythm from Wednesday. I don't really share Pete's antipathy for rates less than 24 and as my watts per stoke is about 85% of my 2k ones and there are 2/3rd of them it felt good, I felt tired at the end but in a good way, I do seem to be getting a slight stiffness in my right shoulder, I think I need to concentrate on making sure my stoke is relaxed.

[G-dub]

on HR - I have actually experienced an odd differmece this year from last year. Last year it wasn't unusual to get my HR up to 190 and even 194 on the very hard sessions. This year it seems to always cap out at 185 on almost every session. Shouldn't have dropped so much in a year! 185 used to be the point where I knew it was going to get tough.

[jackarabit]

@ JohnAd:
Marston, in the "Pacing the Sessions" notes on Pete Plan (Wordpress version), states that "The only guideline for pacing the steady distance sessions is that they should be within the bounds of 22 to 25 spm. . . . These sessions should be at least ten seconds slower than your endurance interval sessions." As is universally acknowledged, there is no low rate component in PP comparable to WP L4 but I see no indication of "antipathy" to rates "under 25spm" for SD/SS work. I attribute my success in dropping my bread and butter rate to 22spm from an early average of 28 to consciously enforcing sub 25.

[Slacker]

BPP 13.3
2x15:00/2:00r row

30:00.0 6,587m @2:16.6 r19
3,284m @2:17.0 r19
3,302m @2:16.2 r19

[jackarabit]

Sample of one HRMAX experience. When I stopped use of beta blocker for CAD rehab in March 2014, my HRMAX rose from 135 to 153 bpm in a few weeks. In January 2015, I observed 172bpm during a very hard hour+ effort which ended in severe respiratory distress and nausea. I seldom see >166 in interval workouts but did observe 171bpm end rate on a very erratically-paced, fartlek-style, sprint and recover 10k done recently. Respiratory distress was minimal. My conclusion is that HRMAX CAN increase with life style alteration as well as decline with age. I think heart muscle condition and chamber and stroke volume are improved by exercise and may be more important than the self-congratulatory valence that we attach to a bpm number.

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

Folks - thanks for best wishes about my health. Given speed of recovery it may have just been something I ate - was feeling lots better on the weekend, and think I'm about back at 100% today.

Did 2x20'/2'r today - first at 2:12.8, the second 2:11.5 (just on or just under 50% of 2k Watts). HRM needs new battery so wasn't wearing it - but PE very reasonable. Maybe one more day of SS tomorrow then something faster on Wednesday I reckon. It does put this week's schedule a bit out of whack and I actually have my first race on Saturday week - so need to work out the best mix of getting in whatever work I still can with some kind of taper next week perhaps (though then still have BRIC two weeks later I'd like to be on good form for).

May be back later here or in a new thread with some questions about best approach over the next few weeks!

[JohnAd]

5.1.1 8x500m
Previous 1:41.7
Target < 1:42.0
01:42.0 r30
01:41.9 r29
01:42.0 r30
01:42.0 r30
01:41.9 r30
01:42.0 r31
01:41.7 r31
01:39.4 r33
Avg 1:41.6 r 30
MHR 167

Very glad to be back improving my times again, even if it is only a tenth, everything at or under 1:42 is also good. First few felt hard (probably just poor warm up as I had limited time) but middle few started to feel possible and then most of what I had left at the end with better rating up and trying to keep good form than I have been doing.

[G-dub]

Great work John!