Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[G-dub]

I agree with you Jack regarding Piers. If it works, roll with it. He is also doing nice work on the 2K paced intervals, so what's to worry?

[JohnAd]

Lindsay, incredible stuff and bodes well for the Crash-Bs. The Pan-Pacs looks like a very good event, I'll maybe start lobbying for a trip to the 2020 one, when I'll just be in the 50 group

Glenn, very odd stuff, are you really doing no rest meters? I find about 90 secs of picking my self up, panting and water etc followed by 2 mins of recovery rowing and then 90 secs of ATP restoration works to clear out a bit of the lactic and feel relatively refreshed for the next one. Otherwise goose's plan sounds like the best one, forget about any 2k time relationships, just back off and go again.

John N, great 10k well done

Piers, very nice mountain row, 3 PBs in one row is pretty good day.

PP 4.3.3 Hard Distance IRL 6344m
Target - no real idea < 1:52.4
01:51.9 r26
01:51.9 r26
01:51.9 r26
01:51.8 r25
01:51.3 r25
01:51.0 r26
01:47.1 r29 (last 344m)
23:33.8 @ 1:51.4 r26
MHR 175

First 5k 18:38.1 SB previous 19:20 (9 secs outside PB from 2014)
First 6k 22:20.2 PB previous 23:27

So pretty happy with that, looks like a 5k PB is on the cards for next time I test it and 8000m for 30' might not be too far away.

[mudgeg]

BRIC

Any of you PP guys based in the UK going to the BRIC on 10 December? Obviously I am not going to compete but thought I might turn up to spectate and at least learn something about technique and pacing. I definitely have a fancy to compete in future years.

Anyway it would be great to put some faces to names. Please pm me if you are going and perhaps we can arrange to meet up.

[G-dub]

Super stuff John. Crushing it.

What do you mean by 90 seconds of ATP restoration? TBH - I stand around for 4' or more wondering what I am doing this for or and then row a very slow in the last minute or so to get the wheel going again!

[JohnAd]

Gordon, there are 3 of us at the moment, see viewtopic.php?f=6&t=150361. I think we're all rowing in the morning.

[JohnAd]

What do you mean by 90 seconds of ATP restoration?

Half understood sports science stuff, by ATP I meant the adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and phosphocreatine (PC) system which is what gives you the free feeling for about 10 secs that I use to get a decent start in. The ATP-PC system is magic in the sense that it requires no oxygen and doesn't generate lactic it just doesn't last long. To refresh it I think I remember reading that you need to be still, you are maybe not allowing yours to refresh by getting the flywheel moving, probably better to clear the lactic out while contemplating why your doing it and then rest at the end.

[mudgeg]

BRIC

John, that's great. I'll look forward to catching up with you Piers and Rohan. Any idea what the earliest start is for any one of you? I'll need to travel into Paddington and then come across London.

I've sent you a pm with my contact details.

[Pie Man]

The race times are not finalised until after 30/11/16 when entries close. If last year is anything to go by the HWT 40-49 race was at 9am, so bright and early!

[hjs]

What do you mean by 90 seconds of ATP restoration?

Half understood sports science stuff, by ATP I meant the adenosine triphosphate (ATP) and phosphocreatine (PC) system which is what gives you the free feeling for about 10 secs that I use to get a decent start in. The ATP-PC system is magic in the sense that it requires no oxygen and doesn't generate lactic it just doesn't last long. To refresh it I think I remember reading that you need to be still, you are maybe not allowing yours to refresh by getting the flywheel moving, probably better to clear the lactic out while contemplating why your doing it and then rest at the end.

Nothing is "free", starting will always cost you. That "free" energy will also be used with a modest start, but over a longer period.

Restoring happens quickly. 90/95% in one minute. In most game sports its used a lot, short burst with short, relative rest.

G. The 4x1 is simply very tough, imo 100% comparable with a 2k. Don,t let it creep in your head. A next time, simply finish it, if needed slow a bit. You need a benchmark. Obviously you can,t handle this session well. So be it. Some people simply recover not fast from lactic build up.

[JohnAd]

Henry, yes I should have put the "free" in quotes, the point being that in order to spend it you have to earn it by allowing it to refresh.

[Pie Man]

John, very strong mountain isn't that slightly quicker then your predicted PP 5k time?

Glenn and Jack, you are right of course, I decided early in the PP that I couldn't rate down like everyone else without putting a pause in, which doesn't feel good to me, I don't put much about my SS pieces but the stroke rate is normally 25 and my 10k PB was @ 29spm. My stronger 1:48/9 stroke feels more connected than these 1:55's but doing them for 5k would be something else...

It still niggles a bit I suppose I'm not sure why but with only 4 weeks tell my race I'm not going to change anything. Oh and I am almost certainly over analyzing this.

[Kxthor911]

Hey guys, this is the first time in my life I believe that I have pushed myself this hard for a relatively long time to try to get into shape. I realize I'm not there yet but with your help I believe I'm getting there. I was a bit bummed out for a few days, and that's when I asked if it would ever get any easier. I in fact was sore, I guess I did not realize how sore I was. I had been feeling very good and energetic. Well last night I decided to put to use what @aussieluke was talking about with the tennis ball. I had bought a roller a couple of months ago and decided to use it last night. Well I almost instantly felt results, and today felt loads better.

Did Week 9 Day 2 4x800 today. Averaged 2:10 at 25-26 spm and felt amazing before and while on the rower.

This in becoming an amazing journey guys. Thanks for all your help. I feel like I'm in better shape than I have ever been in and next time I will realize when I'm starting to get that sore and do something about it before crying here about the rowing getting easier.

Jack, I watched the videos with the link you sent. I really enjoyed the one about how the erg started as a bicycle wheel and how it has evolved.

John_N thanks for taking the time to explain how it will eventually get easier. I see your point and completely agree with what your saying.

[G-dub]

SD: 8K, r22, 2:08.5 HR up for obvious reasons.

Thanks guys as always. I will keep plugging away. I always wonder if it makes sense to beat your head against the wall or go around the wall. In other words, make lots of progress on the sessions that fit you instead of going backwards on the one that doesn't. But then I would have to go back to the "what have you done today" thread which wouldn't be as fun. And I still have time to work on it and hopefully break through. Funny thing is that I did it at just under 1:46.5 and HD'ed, just under 1:46 and HD'ed and just under 1:47 and HD'ed, so stepping back hasn't done the trick yet!

[hjs]

Henry, yes I should have put the "free" in quotes, the point being that in order to spend it you have to earn it by allowing it to refresh.

True, and the "free" is about the feeling, no lactic buildup.

A 5 min rest is enough to get it back, 5 min is not enough to get off all lactic build up. The fact a few times now this session went wrong proberly means the pace simply is to fast. The first 2 should feel doable, if those are already rough 4 is to much.

G maybe do three "slower" ones with a hard last. You need confidence.

[G-dub]

Sorry to be clogging the thread. Hopefully someone else will benefit.

H - so if clearing Lactate is the issue, which seems right given how different this session feels, it would stand to reason that I may need to start further back to the point where it isn't as much of an issue. I have felt OK the first two, regardless of recent pace schemes. The third always feels like a chore but doable. I just haven't been able to recover enough for the fourth. Unlike say the 5 x 1500 where that is more about concentration and belief, this one feels like the last quarter of a 400m race (running) where that legless feeling happens. I might also need to do a better job staying hydrated.