Steady State??

[Shawn Baker]

http://www.strengthsensei.com/why-are-y ... te-cardio/

[Tim K.]

Heresy! Blasphemy!

[Masterninja]

Poliquin is a great coach as far as strength training goes but I tend to believe he cherry picks the research he cites to further his own agenda. He has been adamant about lifting being as good or better for cardio/increases in vo2 max for as long as I can remember. Meanwhile, there is a large body of evidence, particularly as it pertains to vo2 max increases, that suggests quite the opposite. Showing little to no improvements from weight training as far as vo2 max especially when compared to endurance sports like cycling, skiing, running, and rowing.

I'm relatively new here, and very new to rowing but it's certainly not my first rodeo as far as training is concerned. Having participated in many sports, particularly higher intensity anaerobic endeavors, I have yet to have my cardio respiratory system taxed to the same extent that I've already experienced rowing. Perhaps that's because I'm new to it and my technique probably sucks and so on, but one would think, if the argument put forth in this paper were accurate, that the HIIT that I engaged in before would have me in better shape than those of you that have been rowing for years. I can assure you that's not the case.

[Anth_F]

Yep... i just couldn't bulk or gain the muscles i wanted doing lots of steady state sessions and at one point my testosterone levels end up really low due to those regular long steady state (but it did give me good aerobic base) which for rowing is very important. But now, i do a lot more shorter higher intensity stuff for my particular needs, which are to gain muscle and get stronger!! And after such a session, i feel like i have really done some work. The longer steady state stuff, i will now only do 1-2 times per week to keep good conditioning.

Everyone has their own things that they want to achieve so thats what it will always come down to at the end of the day.

Marathon runners don't care about bulking or gaining muscle... it's not in their best interests.

[hjs]

http://www.strengthsensei.com/why-are-y ... te-cardio/

Number one readon would be, you do an endurancesport.

Or hybride Athlete Alex Viada.

http://tonygentilcore.com/2015/06/a-day ... eing-ever/

https://www.completehumanperformance.co ... es-part-2/

[MarkEg]

OK here's a question. Let's say you establish a solid aerobic base by virtue of a lot of steady state. Then, if you stopped steady state and focused on hard intervals etc, to what extent would that work preserve the aerobic base? Surely it would to some degree?

[Anth_F]

OK here's a question. Let's say you establish a solid aerobic base by virtue of a lot of steady state. Then, if you stopped steady state and focused on hard intervals etc, to what extent would that work preserve the aerobic base? Surely it would to some degree?

Great question, Mark. I would be very interested to hear from any people who have had experience with this first hand.

I can't help but think that it will, like you said, to some degree I haven't completely "cut out" steady state sessions, so i can't really give my verdict. My aerobic base still feels good.

[hjs]

OK here's a question. Let's say you establish a solid aerobic base by virtue of a lot of steady state. Then, if you stopped steady state and focused on hard intervals etc, to what extent would that work preserve the aerobic base? Surely it would to some degree?

It will a bit, but training one aspect will always bite the opposite of the spectrum. Stop doing aerobic work and your fitness will rapidly get worse. Stop sprinting, speed will fall off etc.

Other point, hard intervals, depending on volume need long recovery. My simple answer here us always, run a max 400 daily and see how you do.

And hard intervals, for what? Whats the goal? 3x 250 with 10 rest, or 5x1500 on 3 rest. On the first the aerobic system does very little. The latter has a very high aerobic component.

A good example is asian speedskaters, the work very hard, weights, sprints, jumps etc. Not so much continues aerobic work. The are piss poor beyond 1k distances, which is 70/80 seconds work.

[MarkEg]

OK here's a question. Let's say you establish a solid aerobic base by virtue of a lot of steady state. Then, if you stopped steady state and focused on hard intervals etc, to what extent would that work preserve the aerobic base? Surely it would to some degree?

It will a bit, but training one aspect will always bite the opposite of the spectrum. Stop doing aerobic work and your fitness will rapidly get worse. Stop sprinting, speed will fall off etc.

Other point, hard intervals, depending on volume need long recovery. My simple answer here us always, run a max 400 daily and see how you do.

And hard intervals, for what? Whats the goal? 3x 250 with 10 rest, or 5x1500 on 3 rest. On the first the aerobic system does very little. The latter has a very high aerobic component.

Yes Henry, as I thought -- you make a great distinction in the type of interval. So, based on that, doing 5x1500on 3 rest, you're getting as close to the best of both worlds as there is. Am I right?

[hjs]

Yes Henry, as I thought -- you make a great distinction in the type of interval. So, based on that, doing 5x1500on 3 rest, you're getting as close to the best of both worlds as there is. Am I right?

If you are pressed for time. Such a session gives a lot of return on investment. In my younger erging days I only did stuff like that, 15/20 km per week. And erged sub 6.20, but in the longer run I did not improve much on it though. It more builds a peak.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

OH NO, SOMEONE TELL ALL THESE GUYS THEY'VE BEEN DOING IT ALL WRONG!!! Look at how much fat they have and how little muscle is on them!







I could sit here and post dozens more, but I think these few images make my point. This article is complete and total garbage, cherry-picking data and putting it together into a terrible article. Every one of these rowers logs millions of meters on the erg and on the water of SS training. More SS training than anyone on these boards ever has done or ever will do.

[GateDad]

I am faaaaaar from an expert on this subject, but I will say that 'properly performed' high intensity strength training produces excellent cardio results. I am not talking about 1-2 hour marathon strength training sessions, but those short(15-20 minutes)very intense and infrequent training sessions. Doing just one set of about 10 reps, of only 5-6 exercises, I am able to get my HR to its max. I wear a Polar HR monitor and easily reach my theoretical Max HR while strength training. In fact, a few years ago, before I started using an erg, I had a health issue and was taken to the ER. While there, and in the hospital after I was admitted, whenever they took my pulse, the nurses and doctors asked me if did a lot of endurance training. At the time my 1X's weekly weightlifting session was all that I did. Yes, I realize that many factors contribute to HR, and I may be a person whose heart rate is lower (to begin with). But I never ran out of breath climbing stairs or going up hills, walking, etc. Training is specific, and if you want to get a maximum training effect form using the M2, then you have to focus on using a M2. That's why it is hard to compare different activities and prove that this activity is "better for you" than another. It all depends on your goals. But, you can ABSOLUTELY achieve excellent aerobic/anaerobic results doing ONLY HIT strength training. Slow, intense, brief HIT can and does work your overall system quite well. It may not be for everyone, and for sure rowing is an enjoyable, relaxing activity(HIT strength is neither), but I have to give the devil his due. I row for relaxation and enjoyment.

Lou

[mdpfirrman]

Here's the other side to that point that the article Shawn points to makes.

http://bachperformance.com/steady-state ... ts-better/

Related to power / strength, I also found this Pavel Tsatsouline article very surprising.

http://www.strongfirst.com/should-you-t ... ow-fibers/

[Oldcolonial]

You are what you train to be. That is inescapable. If you do steady state work all the time, you will get progressively worse ( on a relative basis ) at everything else. To me, it depends on what your goals are.

Just about all sporting activities require some of each of 5 basic competencies - strength, speed, endurance, flexibility and coordination and you should develop them to the extent your performance objective demands them. Even "speed events" like the 100 meter run require some of each and each must be worked in the right proportion and in a sport specific way. The current world dominating sprinter, Usain Bolt ( Not only the fastest of all time but statistically the most dominant of the last 50+ years ) dominates because he has the ability to maintain his top speed better (has more endurance!) than his competitors not because he is marked superior to world class sprinters in other ways. He does not start faster ( strength, coordination ), have a higher top speed ( speed ), better efficiency ( speed, flexibility and coordination ) but he gets to the finish line first because of his superior endurance. he simply slows down less than the rest over the last 4.5 - 3.5 seconds of the race than the rest. The way he builds this endurance is not through long slow steady state work but through work relatively ( vs. marathons) close to the intensity at which he races.

So its important to make your endurance work goal specific. Shorter and higher intensity if that is your performance objective and visa versa. Its also important to work on the other 4 competencies; strength, speed, flexibility, coordination.