New here.. general training question

[e-Clair]

We still don't know the drag factor? See if you can figure out how to find it on your machine. Right now, we know high damper setting combined with high rate, which points to poor rowing form possibly being more important than endurance right now. Slowing down might solve that on its own. C2 has good rowing form videos on youtube.

[lindsayh]

We still don't know the drag factor? See if you can figure out how to find it on your machine. Right now, we know high damper setting combined with high rate, which points to poor rowing form possibly being more important than endurance right now. Slowing down might solve that on its own. C2 has good rowing form videos on youtube.

Yes to all the above - slower stroke rate, longer distances ->> better fitness and faster 2k as long as technique is good which could be a problem here.
Sorting the drag factor will also help.

(BTW Clair I think you have your PBs and SBs flipped in your signature)

[jamesg]

If you can do a 2k at 20 and 200W, just use that stroke for a few months. Ratio 10 (Watts/Rating): low drag will help do say 10k in around 40 minutes at low rate.

Your 90s 500 (480W) at 32 was a 15 W stroke, so 10 should be easy. You may need to use length as well as strength, by making the handle travel a long way each stroke. Rowing is a Work-based sport, and Work = Length x Force. Both are needed to spin the wheel by overcoming its inertia. High drag will stop the wheel, which is not what's wanted to go fast. We can't cheat Newton, or ourselves, but we can use his Dynamics.

Without knowing If you're a HW male or a LW woman or anywhere in between, it's hard to give absolute training numbers. However, based on your body mass, training at 2W/kg and rate 20 will soon sort out your endurance problems.

Forget the high rate stuff, that's more a question of technique, which can only be put in place by going slow (rating) fast (speed) and long (hours); same as endurance.

If you're the right age, you could look for some water too.

[hjs]

Thank you hjs. Does this mean that my steady state work should be done at roughly 2:20-2:24 pace for my split? With my current 2k split right at 2:01.5 ish?

Yes, but I think this will soon feel very slow, so it will naturally speed up, keep your breathing calm, and your strokes long and relax.

Its difficult to give exact guides at this point. Your 2k is simply not a good guide. With your 500 in mind I expect you to rapidly get fitter.

[left coaster]

masterninja, I've done a lot of steady 10K bits over the last year. I don't do much volume compared to others on the board, but it was necessary to put in the time to see improvements on anything past 250m. My 500m only came down below 1:32 recently.

Initially I went out with the DF on 10, seems lots of people do. However, I perform a lot better on the 10k with the damper on 4.5 while focusing on moving fast (more than strong) on the drive and fully relaxing on the recovery. I also keep my stroke rate under 22 for the longer bits, it gives time on the stroke recovery to actually recover and makes a big difference in the duration I'm able to manage.

Even though you describe your stroke as efficient, it can always be helpful to do some online research and to watch examples from experts. Something as subtle as letting my back roll forward vs. staying upright and on my sit bones can make a huge difference for me when pushing past 20 minutes.

If I was in your situation I'd find a relaxed stroke, settle in at a rate of 22 or so and a split of 2:15 and work the distance/duration until I was able to comfortably row 10K. It seems you have the training and discipline, it should be easy enough to get there in a month if you alternate days.

[Masterninja]

masterninja, I've done a lot of steady 10K bits over the last year. I don't do much volume compared to others on the board, but it was necessary to put in the time to see improvements on anything past 250m. My 500m only came down below 1:32 recently.

Initially I went out with the DF on 10, seems lots of people do. However, I perform a lot better on the 10k with the damper on 4.5 while focusing on moving fast (more than strong) on the drive and fully relaxing on the recovery. I also keep my stroke rate under 22 for the longer bits, it gives time on the stroke recovery to actually recover and makes a big difference in the duration I'm able to manage.

Even though you describe your stroke as efficient, it can always be helpful to do some online research and to watch examples from experts. Something as subtle as letting my back roll forward vs. staying upright and on my sit bones can make a huge difference for me when pushing past 20 minutes.

If I was in your situation I'd find a relaxed stroke, settle in at a rate of 22 or so and a split of 2:15 and work the distance/duration until I was able to comfortably row 10K. It seems you have the training and discipline, it should be easy enough to get there in a month if you alternate days.

Thanks left coaster! It's encouraging to hear from someone who's been through similar struggles. The slowing down of the spm has been one of the more difficult aspects of rowing for me. I automatically feel like I'm cheating myself but I can definitely see where having begun to apply it has already helped with my technique and my ability to relax during the session.

I have been watching lots and lots of videos on form and have been tweeking mine accordingly. But I'm sure it's like anything else with sport and I will always be striving to improve it in some form or fashion. I've been doing squats for 20 years and still feel like I learn new things about squat technique all the time lol! I've found with all my other athletic endeavors that approaching new pursuits with humility and willingness is always the best way, which is why I joined here to ask questions. I don't have the time, nor the inclination to put in the weekly volume that a lot of people here seem to. I picked up rowing because I made a Resolution to myself this year to only do training sessions that make me feel better. After years of heavy squatting and deadlifting I have a lot of aches and pains that came from the pursuit of more weight. I've cut my weight training down to a minimum maintenance phase to focus more on rowing and other things because rowing makes me feel good for lack of a more articulate description. I have lots of other hobbies but sometimes with boxing/muay thai, it's nice to just get a break. As painful as I have already found 2k tests to be, no one has hit me in the face while I've been doing one yet so I count that as a plus lol!

[left coaster]

Rowing came together for me after sorting the 10k. I'm with you in terms of having other things to do with my life and share your experience of having trained hard in my younger years and feeling weary from the effort. That said, 10k is only about 40 minutes when you get it sorted and erging is very low impact. Erging on alternate days up to about 80% max effort, in my humble opinion, is something a person can do almost indefinitely.

I also study aging and can say with reasonable certainty that getting in the habit of doing medium distance endurance work will serve you well for many years to come

[e-Clair]

(BTW Clair I think you have your PBs and SBs flipped in your signature)

I'm doing it the same way Jack does (?) so I can enjoy the rich creamy fullness of improvement. That way it lasts about 3000 times as long as an eclair.

Masterninja, you might find that your stroke gets longer over the course of months, even without concentrating on stretching.

[gooseflight]

The slowing down of the spm has been one of the more difficult aspects of rowing for me. I automatically feel like I'm cheating myself but I can definitely see where having begun to apply it has already helped with my technique and my ability to relax during the session.

The erg measure watts and watts is work. You can max out your HR at low spm just as readily as you can at high spm.

[jackarabit]

Lindsay, my reasoning on the proper use of the FRS siggy line is that some very good indoor rowers of long experience "age out" of the ability to match or better their lifetime PBs. When they use the PB/SB format, their SB power as a percentage of PB power is <100. A novice rower, even if older than dirt like I am, typically experiences a honeymoon of improvement such that SBs (current best performances) replace the previous bests. When the Concept 2 season ends 1 May 17, if the Good Lord sees fit, I will update the PB line where possible and start a new SB line. In the meantime, I like the signature line with SBs showing percentage improvement from PBs quantified as >100%. Even an old dog has the urge to have his season in the sun. Can't speak for e-clair but I suspect he uses a similar reasoning.

[Masterninja]

Thanks again everyone for the responses! Got in my 20 minutes at around 18-22 spm with a 2:20 split. Felt good. It was challenging but I felt energized afterwards not like I wanted to vomit after sprinting.

[Bob S.]

Thanks again everyone for the responses! Got in my 20 minutes at around 18-22 spm with a 2:20 split. Felt good. It was challenging but I felt energized afterwards not like I wanted to vomit after sprinting.

Good job. From my view, you are right on track. From this point on, you should be able to very gradually increase the time or decrease the split or some combination of the 2.

Bob S.

[Masterninja]

Thanks bob! Today's training was even better. I maintained the 2:20 split fairly easily and still felt great 15 minutes in so I spent the last 5 minutes right at 2:15 just to see how it felt. The spm were on the low end at 17-18 for that last 5 minutes and I'm not sure if that's good or bad. But the pace felt good. Nice and relaxed. I figure I'll keep it around there and slowly start to play around with the last 5-10 minutes of the segment and then start to add time in 5 minute blocks to work myself
Up to a slow 10k or thereabouts.

[GeneB]

In general, start out easy....

Sooo hard for us Type A personalities!

Good thread of info for us beginners (third week using a rower and out of shape). I work best under structure, and have been using the C2 weight loss schedule which has a mix of intervals and distance. Perhaps just getting a baseline of distance and solidifying good form/technique for a month or so is a good idea?

[left coaster]

GeneB -- technique is really important on the erg. At first I didn't realize how much energy can be wasted but as I paid attention to staying relaxed, fluid and efficient I started to see gains that were not necessarily an outcome of improved fitness. I came to understand how important it is to train with proper form from the beginning, it is important to train our musculature for the right type of movement from day one.

Lots of the heavies on this board still do 'strapless' work with some regularity. A rookie error is to leave energy at the end of the stroke and to pull back too fast with the legs at the start of the recovery -- a classic sign of this is the erg slowly sliding backwards during a session. It's good to train on one that is on a smooth floor and not bolted down, you'll notice immediately if you're moving around too much.