Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[jackarabit]

Paul, I agee that average split per interval going negative by a full second in each of several succeeding intervals, altho possible of execution, is not a sustainable rate of improvement. Those who claim this is the normative training experience probably shouldn't be calling out others for choosing soft targets. Gordon has executed on the 1"/split drop this week. I'm watching to see if he can repeat.

[Goldenbarry]

Hi everyone. I'll catch up reading the board later tonight. I meant to take a day off and it turned into 4 after I strained something in my hip playing basketball. It's a young man's game, eventually I'm going to have to shut it down.

Tonight I tested my hip by stretching W7 d1 into a 10k at 2:09.7. A couple seconds slower than I've been doing the longer pieces but it felt pretty good.

[turboskiff]

Paul, I agee that average split per interval going negative by a full second in each of several succeeding intervals, altho possible of execution, is not a sustainable rate of improvement. Those who claim this is the normative training experience probably shouldn't be calling out others for choosing soft targets. Gordon has executed on the 1"/split drop this week. I'm watching to see if he can repeat.

Last word on this.

No no of course I am not suggesting that every time one second increase is possible. That all depends where you start.

All I am saying that 1 watt over three intervals is not a negative split and three pulls at the end means nothing. It is flat pacing.

If you can go 2:08 to 2:05 then sure you can go 2:08 2:07 2:06 2:05. At these paces It's only ~10 watts. (Or go down .5 seconds if you doubt it.)

But really since the session comes around every three weeks next time it will be 2:06.5 start so yes at these paces it is quite possible. Average goes from 2:06.5 to 2:05. Six watts is not so much.

(And to Paul, you can only train how you train not how Pete Marston train. His paces are somewhat different to yours.)

[JohnAd]

According to the book, the 4 x 2 should be .5 seconds faster

Glenn, great session, well done for sticking it out, the 186 HR in the second one makes it look like you were pushing it hard from the off. I looked again at the MC book for the origin of this and his 4x2k would have 7:30 rest rather than 5:00.

Gordon, great effort, my view would be that you can carry forward the 5 .1s where you were too fast and that somehow cancels the .1 where you the other way and gives you enough to feel very good about executing your plan.

[mudgeg]

My name seems to have come up on a few occasions with regards to the intervals. I am not experienced enough to enter this debate but to be clear my only thinking behind it was to give me some measure of increasing effort and improvement. Intervals in my earlier erg days (and even on the BPP) were all over the place, typically starting hard and then slowing rapidly.

So as a strategy, rightly or wrongly, I simply took a rough average and started from there. On the 6 x 500, I started at 1:55 and was well on target by interval 6, so last night as more of a challenge on a 7 x 500m I began at 1:54 and that was much tougher. I claim no great insight into whether this is a correct strategy it is just my way of challenging myself and how much of a challenge that is of course, depends where you want to start from and how much you shave off each interval.

I see guys on this thread doing my best 500m pace over 2k and that is quite humbling and just shows me how far I have to go.

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

@ Tim - good stuff on getting through the 8k - no harm in being sensibly cautious about pacing to get the right balance of physical and mental challenge and you both hit your target and had a good strong finish so defo one to be happy with.

@ Gordon - from my perspective just a great set of 500s - showing both improvement from your last effort but also still upside for your future. All good in my opinion!

@ John - scorching 4x2k and still making big gains between cycles on some of these workouts! What's the 2k race plan you're currently using? For the races I have coming up I'm planning to use the Micke C pacing I used in my 2k TT - 800m @ GP +1, 600m @ GP, 400m @ GP - 1 and 200m @ GP - 2. With the reduced display options in a race setup I was planning to just remember the required average at each of the 4 changeover points to know if I'm on track or not - similar to what you're doing?

@ Glenn - that is an awesome effort on your 4x2k also - all 4 under 1:53 is superb - is that your quickest ever for that session?

Couple of other thoughts from me:

You're also the "poster" boy for adequate recovery on your SS row just prior to this 10k best.

Thanks Jack - though I do think that description is more generous than I deserve! I'm probably typically more of a stickler for picking a pace before hand and sticking to it than I should be - but I think I've got away with it because the ~2:12 I've been doing my SS rows at has had me in UT2 for the vast majority of the time. I've been on the short side (from a distance pov) - with most of my SS rows being 8k only. And of course 2:12 for me (+27 to 2k) is only 50% of 2k Watts - for someone with a 8:00 2k then 2:27 (+27) would be 54% - a not insignificant difference in my opinion.

Rohan's numbers were all low to mid 7:30s on that workout before he did his sub 7.

Actually Mike even higher than that - my last 4x2k before the sub 7 had 3 of the 4 intervals at more than 7:37.

My 2k was ahead of expectation, and I don't know how well the 4x2k pace relates to a single 2k, but Glenn one thing I think we can say with confidence given your recent endurance intervals is that you clearly have a sub 19:00 5k in you! I felt like (expecting to, and) breaking 19 minutes for 5k was a fair result for me given my endurance interval timing, and you're well ahead of me on all those workouts.

[lindsayh]

PP 2.1.4
45' @2:03.4 (10960m)
sr23 df125 183W MHR140

[gooseflight]

Paul, I agee that average split per interval going negative by a full second in each of several succeeding intervals, altho possible of execution, is not a sustainable rate of improvement. Those who claim this is the normative training experience probably shouldn't be calling out others for choosing soft targets. Gordon has executed on the 1"/split drop this week. I'm watching to see if he can repeat.

It is better to look at watts, which I think is what 'skiff is getting at.

Four intervals negative splitting by 1 sec:

2:08 -> 2:05 (167W -> 179W) avg watts 173
2:06.5 -> 2:03.5 (173W -> 186W) avg watts 179

1:45 -> 1:42 (302W -> 330W) avg watts 316
1:43.5 -> 1:40.5 (316W -> 345W) avg watts 330

The gap grows the faster you go!

[JohnAd]

@ John - scorching 4x2k and still making big gains between cycles on some of these workouts! What's the 2k race plan you're currently using? For the races I have coming up I'm planning to use the Micke C pacing I used in my 2k TT - 800m @ GP +1, 600m @ GP, 400m @ GP - 1 and 200m @ GP - 2. With the reduced display options in a race setup I was planning to just remember the required average at each of the 4 changeover points to know if I'm on track or not - similar to what you're doing?

Thanks, yes I do seem to be still finding my limits on the intervals, it all seems to be about feeling the burn 1 rep further back each time. For my 2k I'm planning on using that same plan, my spreadsheet spits out

Code: Select all

2000	1	01.45.5	00.00.0		       07.02.0
1800	1	01.45.5	00.42.2	01.45.5	07.02.0
1600	1	01.45.5	01.24.4	01.45.5	07.02.0
1400	1	01.45.5	02.06.6	01.45.5	07.02.0
1200	0	01.44.5	02.48.8	01.45.5	06.59.6
1000	0	01.44.5	03.30.6	01.45.3	06.59.6
800	 0	01.44.5	04.12.4	01.45.2	06.59.6
600   -1	01.43.5	04.54.2	01.45.1	06.58.4
400	-1	01.43.5	05.35.6	01.44.9	06.58.4
200	-2	01.42.5	06.17.0	01.44.7	06.58.0

Where the columns are distance, pace relative to goal pace, time at distance, average split, estimated finish time. I've picked a bit under 7 mins so that the sprint is optional and if I simply hold 1.44.5 from 1200 I'll still get sub7. This will all be on a post it to stick on the monitor. What is actually shown on the race display?

[lindsayh]

Where the columns are distance, pace relative to goal pace, time at distance, average split, estimated finish time. I've picked a bit under 7 mins so that the sprint is optional and if I simply hold 1.44.5 from 1200 I'll still get sub7. This will all be on a post it to stick on the monitor. What is actually shown on the race display?

http://www.concept2.com.au/indoor-rower ... ce-display

http://www.concept2.com.au/indoor-rower ... ace-advice

[G-dub]

Blood, since you asked, my best 4 x 2 last summer was 1:54.5, so I've picked up just about 2" this trip. I wonder what it will have to say on the deuce, but I think you are right that I should be able to better the 5 at this point.

[jackarabit]

Rohan writes:

I've been on the short side (from a distance pov) - with most of my SS rows being 8k only. And of course 2:12 for me (+27 to 2k) is only 50% of 2k Watts - for someone with a 8:00 2k then 2:27 (+27) would be 54% - a not insignificant difference.

I think you are are at a smidge under 1:45 pace for your 2k shown in your siggy line. I calculate that 2k+27" would have you working at 50% of your 2k watts but the 2' man at 55% of his 2k power rather than 54%. The divergence of percentages of 2k power in the example is slightly greater than you say. In my personal case (2:04.4 av. pace for 2k), 2k+27" is 56% of 2k power.

If you are typically working recovery meters at 50% of 2k power, I'd say you show remarkable patience and restraint. No need to be modest about doing your recovery sessions at 2k+27". Slow works the muscles without cardiac stress. Yours is a good point that the minimum 24k per week of SS recovery stipulated in Pete Plan may be a shortfall in terms of volume, particularly if one subscribes to the view that a 4:1 ratio of LIT to HIIT is very desirable for those wanting to avoid overtraining.

[JohnAd]

Lindsay, thanks for the link, that isn't really very much info at all, I'll have to think about that, initial thoughts are that I'd want to know at what distance to go I'd want the average pace to be ticking down but it's probably a question of making sure you replicate the rounding to not have this take you way off.

[mdpfirrman]

Lindsay, thanks for the link, that isn't really very much info at all, I'll have to think about that, initial thoughts are that I'd want to know at what distance to go I'd want the average pace to be ticking down but it's probably a question of making sure you replicate the rounding to not have this take you way off.

John - I've only raced once (my PB 2K so far though I think I could surpass it now). It's not that hard to read the screen and figure out what's going on. It would be helpful for you, though, to go early and watch other races and see what's going on with their monitors. Usually with races (the one I did and seeing others online), you're able to usually get close enough to the competitors to see a monitor or two. I didn't do that on my race but I was so focused on just me (and knew my competitors' abilities so I knew more than likely where I'd finish) that I didn't worry about everyone else - just me. That's very easy to do. I was surprised after doing PP for 3 months or so, though, how much I had left in me during the last 300m with adrenaline and prep. My goal was to do a PB and break 7:25 perhaps at the time. I ended up crushing the last 500m and getting a 7:19.1. I had never dreamed of even doing that. The adrenaline will help you a lot but it's still much better to have a reasonable plan in place.

My SS session from yesterday was 55 minutes at 2:14.0 (12306 meters).

[aussieluke]

PP week 4 day 4

2 x 6k 2:05.5 r22