What does proper technique feel like?

[fimmx]

Hi everyone, I finally decided to get serious about my concept2 that's been collecting dust for the last couple of years. A quick search brought me to these forums, and what a wealth of information here.

I've been trying to understand proper technique. I've watched the videos, I've read the training guides, I think I grok the logs/back/arms sequence. My understanding is that you push off with your legs which power most of your stroke, then lean back and then pull with your arms. And then the whole sequence in reverse. At least this is what I am trying to do. I would appreciate some feedback on what this should *feel* like. When I push harder, I feel it in my legs and it seems even more so in my arms. Is that how it should feel? I guess my question is, in trying to row with greater intensity, does the effort also move from legs to back to arms, or do the legs and arms feel the increase in intensity equally at the same time at the start of the push? Should I be actively relaxing my arms in the beginning of the stroke so the pressure on the arms begins only after the backward lean? Or am I thinking too much about this? Thanks.

[hjs]

Difficult to say, its not just technique, but more fitness that makes it possible to push hard.
And the power goes from feet through the whole to the handle, so you feel it everywhere, and yes the power mostly comes from the big muscle in the legs/hips but that power has to be supported. Lowerback, shoulders, elbows and hands do a lot of work.

The difference in feel is proberly that leg muscle are the limiting factor, only relative untrained ergers have that feeling in other places, but thats not so much technique, more specific fitness/strenght.

[gooseflight]

The sequence is always the same.

You can't really >relax< your arms because they have to 'take' the catch. The arms, core and upper body are passive, keeping your torso upright as the legs power away.

If you relax your arms and upper body you would end up 'bum-shoving', i.e., your upper body would be static whilst your bum shoots backwards. Not a good look.

During the leg drive you should feel the tension in your lats and your core. Your arms provide the firm connection to the handle whilst the legs do their thing.

When the legs and back are done you pull the handle to the chest.

You could ask what does good technique sound like? A strong stroke at low rating results in a big whoosh from the fan as you lay down the power with the legs.

[jamesg]

Proper technique would have us pull strokes that are as long and quick as possible, i.e with a large Work content. Such strokes move boats effectively and can even force us to get fit.

The pull sequence (technique) is governed by what has to be done when accelerating a moving load, using our hands.

The sequence as you say is legs, trunk/shoulders, arms. The logic is to use the largest possible muscles at the lowest speed first, using smaller muscles as the handle speed increases. We separate their action so that as far as possible we don't use one muscle against another and can stay relaxed, albeit without falling overboard.

This sequence, used in reverse for the recovery, has the effect of putting weight on our feet, stabilizing posture and enabling the next fast catch.

You can of course try variations or other techniques and sequences. Watts/Paces at any given rating will show the effects immediately. In particular, I find that prompt use of the legs and separation of this from other action, as described above, increases Watts visibly. Seeing it doesn't make it any easier tho'.

In general, low feet, low rating and low drag can all help the action.

[fimmx]

Thank you! It seems to me I'm doing pretty ok for now.

[Hillclimber]

Interesting question.
Answer: it feels terrific.
One possible way to get there: In steady state pieces of 10k or more keep the distractions to a minimum (not an advocate of TV viewing during a workout) and spend sets of say 1000m focusing 100% on an individual component of the stroke.
Here's what I think about, individually and exclusively for a full 1k
each (in the 10k example).
- Quick catch
- Strong leg drive from the feet up
- Hang on the handle (don't break elbows until after your legs have done most of the work)
- Keep back straight and strong
- Strong, quick pull with arms beginning a wee bit before knees are extended
- Quick hands past knees at recovery
- Steady movement toward catch, prepping for a solid catch
- Figure out what breathing pattern feels best - inhale/exhale on drive or recovery

> > Repetition equals muscle memory - equals stroke efficiency - equals optimal performance.

One example of terrific: maintain a consistent stroke rate in your steady state work (for me, it's easier to be consistent when going hard, so efficient SS is a goal). I find it it is a challenge to do that for more than approximately 10 strokes. But achieving even 10 consistent strokes to me is motivating. It's what good technique feels like.
Damien
- only early season SB of note: 10k 36:04

[Cyclingman1]

One example of terrific: maintain a consistent stroke rate in your steady state work

Consistent stroke rate is a product of consistency in all aspects of the stroke that you have detailed. If one is hunting for a stroke, there will not be consistency. Even better than maintaining a constant stroke rate is maintaining a constant pace. If one is at 25 SPM, +- 1 stroke is 4% delta. If one is at 1:40 pace, +- 1 sec is 1%. I'm able to do +- 2 sec for long periods.

[gooseflight]

Consistent stroke rate is a product of consistency in all aspects of the stroke

Consistent stroke rate is a product of consistent ratio. Often overlooked and not a metric offered by the PM.

[Hillclimber]

One example of terrific: maintain a consistent stroke rate in your steady state work

Consistent stroke rate is a product of consistency in all aspects of the stroke that you have detailed. If one is hunting for a stroke, there will not be consistency. Even better than maintaining a constant stroke rate is maintaining a constant pace. If one is at 25 SPM, +- 1 stroke is 4% delta. If one is at 1:40 pace, +- 1 sec is 1%. I'm able to do +- 2 sec for long periods.

Jim,
You're right of course, steady pace is the more important factor in technique.
D

[sailortodd]

Because trying to describe the feel of proper technique is difficult and subjective, is it prudent to use the force curve to further ensure applied force is smooth through the stroke? I turn to that when I feel like my stroke is off and need to fine tune it.

[fimmx]

I appreciate the replies to this thread. What I really wanted to know was more about what the various parts of your body feel you as go through the stroke. I was worried that the tension in my arms on the catch was indicative of something being off. From the replies here and more browsing I have a better understanding of what this should be. One of these days I might actually post a video for feedback. I don't feel secure enough to do that yet!

[Parky]

As a relatively new rower at 71 years old, it doesn't get any easier, it just hurts less.

[aussieluke]

Like warm apple pie

no wait, thats something else

[Pie Man]

I am no expert, but the one thing I see time and time again on other erg users at my gym is a 'bouncing' handle, normally caused by breaking the knees before the handle has passed them. To me the handle return should be smooth and stable, so you don't start the next stroke trying to reign it in but from a solid consistent platform.

As gooseflight says sound is important, so for the return a whoosh as the bungie takes in the handle passed yours knees, followed by no 'slapping' of the chain.

[Cyclist2]

As a relatively new rower at 71 years old, it doesn't get any easier, it just hurts less.

I think the saying is: "It never gets easier, you just get faster". The pain is part of the plan, or so they say.

In any case, good for you starting rowing at an advanced age - it will do nothing but make you feel younger.

Regarding technique, when I started (Model A in my apartment, that tells how long ago) I set up mirrors so I could watch myself. It was pre-Internet, so I read about how it was supposed to be done, then checked the mirrors. With YouTube now you'll have lots of good, and bad, examples to watch, then try the mirror thing or video yourself and self-critique.