Can Rowing Kill You?

[Cyclingman1]

Lot of vagueness in this topic. In the first place, how many years of intensive endurance exercise are we talking about? Take a 50 yr old. Are we looking at 30 or 10 yrs of hard exercise? And secondly, I suspect that 50 yr olds are not going to drop dead. Personally, I think cumulative adverse changes in the body are more likely to become issues for those in their 60s or 70s. And those changes may well involve more than cardiac. I'm a bit sympathetic to the notion that decades of intensity might well be a problem. Not sure we are built for that. BTW, TDF riders are usually done by 35. So are they really relevant to this study?

[hjs]

Lot of vagueness in this topic. In the first place, how many years of intensive endurance exercise are we talking about? Take a 50 yr old. Are we looking at 30 or 10 yrs of hard exercise? And secondly, I suspect that 50 yr olds are not going to drop dead. Personally, I think cumulative adverse changes in the body are more likely to become issues for those in their 60s or 70s. And those changes may well involve more than cardiac. I'm a bit sympathetic to the notion that decades of intensity might well be a problem. Not sure we are built for that. BTW, TDF riders are usually done by 35. So are they really relevant to this study?

Cyclist have the tendency to keep riding. But if not, valid argument yes.

[Cyclingman1]

I had the privilege of riding with the great Eddy Merckx in 1986 out of a bike store in north Atlanta that was selling Merckx bike frames. He would have been 41 at the time, less than 1 year older than me. He still had a certain physicality, but it was obvious that he was no longer a mega-mile rider. Pretty much a fun rider. OTOH, I was going at it hard and heavy and had, in fact, just purchased one of his frames and had the bike built up. Don't know if he is typical of TDF riders.

[sander]

My scattered thoughts on this:

• If you have no history of intense training, you will have to build it up very gradually when starting at an older age.
• Most of our workouts are so short that a cyclist wouldn't think it worth to take the bike out of the shed for.
• If you're putting in the intensities that some of us are putting in, I would recommend do a sports specific health check at least once a year. This year I did just a medical check but I regretted that. I will do the one with exercise and VO2 measuring the next time. ECG should be part of the check. I am lucky. The ECG always were good.
• At these checks, I have been getting consistent results about my health, which basically were that if I would train less, I would have to make more radical changes in my life style (diet) to stay healthy. So I guess the training does improve my health, but if I would take the advice to heart, I should really change my diet as well. This is in line with what was said above.
• Stress relief. I have a quite stressful job. The training is (among other things) an important way for me to force myself to get downtime. I believe this has a tremendous positive effect. I recharge my battery every day.

So, in summary, it can go both ways. This is an individual thing, and there are health professionals out there who can measure and help you make the decision. And one has to realize that even if exercise helps you, there is always more that you could do. The question is if you can or want to commit.

[jackarabit]

Yes, Doug, old Fickle Sickle sure puts the eff u in futility.

We defy augury. There's a special providence in the fall of a sparrow. If it be now, 'tis not to come. If it be not to come, it will be now. If it be not now, yet it will come—the readiness is all.--Willy S.

[hjs]

I had the privilege of riding with the great Eddy Merckx in 1986 out of a bike store in north Atlanta that was selling Merckx bike frames. He would have been 41 at the time, less than 1 year older than me. He still had a certain physicality, but it was obvious that he was no longer a mega-mile rider. Pretty much a fun rider. OTOH, I was going at it hard and heavy and had, in fact, just purchased one of his frames and had the bike built up. Don't know if he is typical of TDF riders.

Not really, Merckx only rode for one reason, to win, not much else. Nobody can touch his winning %

Cycling is just an easy sport to keep doing. Can be done everywhere and is age friendly. And I do know, over here in Europa that most pro s keep on riding after their carreer.

[G-dub]

One thing that Joel Friel mentions is the benefit/need for a down week scheduled in every 4-6 weeks. Life usually forces that, but I bet there is some sense to taking a few days off regularly as we get older to de stress. Isn't some of the concern related to relentless stress which also comes from job, money, relationships, etc. as well as the hard efforts? I also wonder if my morning easy run session wouldn't be better spent meditating.

[Anth_F]

Yeah!! Some morning meditation can be an excellent way to start out the day. Go to a park and do it too, if you don't mind doing it in public.

Even a nice walk at pace can be just as beneficial.

As for rest.... i find myself doing less time rowing now, and more rest too. This was not something planned, but basically going along with listening to my body.

The 1 week down time seems a long break but i guess it depends how hard you're going at it with your training. 3 days should suffice for most.

[mdpfirrman]

I've also read studies that two of the best indicators of long life are waist to hip ratio and VO2 Max. If I didn't row, both of these indicators would suck.

I do think that with runners in particular (having tried to run for nearly four years and failing miserably) have a lot of chronic inflammation. I'd be curious to know if that's part of the reason after a certain amount of miles (and running through injury) that runners have a diminishing return on activity (most studies I've seen say after around 35 miles per week you won't live longer with the sweet spot being around 25 to 35). The reason I stopped running is because at around 30 to 35 miles per week I was inflamed all the time. I would sit and have pain for nearly 3 hours after every run. Inflammation isn't your friend. Common sense told me I needed to find another exercise activity that didn't cause the amount of inflammation that running did - thus I now row. No pain, no inflammation - even immediately after very strenuous rows. I know that inflammation is tied to plaque in the arteries (not sure the science behind it but it's hormone related I believe). Perhaps that's why (as Henry mentioned) TdF bikers live longer - biking is another sport that doesn't cause the inflammation from the pounding that running causes.

Most runners I know that run marathons don't care if it takes a year or two off of their lives (especially the ultra marathoners I know). They assume that as part of the risk.

Doesn't hurt to look into supplements that keep plaque at bay - vitamin K2 is one (I should actually take that) - keeps calcium in the bones - not in the arteries (which is a major source of calcification of arteries). Nattokinase (from Japanese Natto - fermented soy beans). Nattokinase also unclogs the arteries.

[Pie Man]

If it was a a serious risk then wouldn't the insurance companies increase premiums for people that exercise frequently? From the forms I have done exercise is counted as a positive in fact some companies in the uk offer discounts on gym membership with their life/health cover.

[ArmandoChavezUNC]

I agree the benefits of exercising outweigh the risks. I guess what I am wondering is if I am too extreme in the training that I am doing?

Is it better to limit volume and intensity within some parameters to avoid the downside? I really don't know. My concern about pulling back is that it would be boring and I would lose the massively motivating factor of trying to get faster and win races.

On the other hand, my wife would be pretty pissed if I killed myself with a hard interval session.

Greg, you bring up something that I've actually been seeing in my father and his fellow rowing/exercise friends. My dad is 61 and has recently been dealing with some disconcerting heart issues, which I believe have not been fully diagnosed, though he's been seen by a plethora of experts and has undergone all kinds of tests. I think he has a sort of ventricular fibrillation that only kicks in when his HR gets above a certain point - essentially he can workout no problems up to a certain intensity, then he hits a point where his HR suddenly jumps about 40 beats and he goes into fibrillation. He doesn't feel it, he can continue his workouts, but the HR monitor certainly shows it and it has been recorded in the lab. The physiologists he has seen have all said what the article you shared sates - that intense exercise, especially at an older age, is not good for the body, especially the heart. My father has also had 3 close friends pass away within the last 2 years of various heart conditions, though there is no definitive proof any of them were due to their rowing or training. Certainly, however, this has affected his training and overall outlook on racing.

With that said, I'll also say this: exercise to the level that most of us do it is not good for the body, no matter the age. The body is not made to handle the stress we put it through, which adds up the older you get and eventually catches up to you. Let's not be too dramatic or sensationalist, though, and realize that there are far worse things for your health than an unhealthy amount of exercise: smoking, heavy drinking, drugs, obesity, diabetes, etc. I don't think people should look at this and think to themselves that they shouldn't exercise as much anymore or that they should quit the sport. You just have to realize that anything, in excess, is bad for the body. If the worst thing you do to your body is put it through too much training, you're probably going to be okay and better off than your neighbor who chain-smokes, or your overweight neighbor with diabetes, or your neighbor who drinks every night. It's really not as bad as I think some may make it seem.

So yes, it's definitely something to be aware of and keep an eye on. If you're older and actively exercising, stay on top of your medical check-ups and go see a cardiologist regularly to detect any subtle changes in your heart rhythms early. Other than that, I don't think you should change your training just because there's a small, non-zero risk that you may develop a serious heart condition. There are dozens of things we do everyday that raise our risk of something bad happening to our bodies. It's unavoidable.

[Gammmmo]

If someone gave me a choice - you can do endurance sports and train so you can compete at a decent level but it will shorten your life expectancy 5 years, maybe even 10, OR you can do moderate exercise and have the extra years. I'd take the former every time. In the interim, I'll just keep doing what I'm doing as long as it's fun, and if I get a distinct warning then maybe only then will I reign things in.

[Cyclingman1]

Armando, your story is exactly what I was suggesting. There are cumulative effects that are not going to be seen at, say, age 50. Also, I want to stress, IMO, that problems arise in those doing very intense workouts for years/decades, not the steady but not so balls-to-wall exerciser. There is a huge difference. I would wonder just how many middle-aged rowers really do fall into the intensity camp that this study is discussing. Most people are just not going to be that dedicated or, shall we say, fanatical.

I know that my EKGs have been puzzling doctors for years now, but have given me a pass when I explain my athletic background. Secondly, a bit off topic are factors that come up with constant heavy exercise: inflammation, soreness, and dehydration. I'm pretty convinced that I exercised myself into a serious tendency for DVTs, and unfortunately PEs. I will be on blood thinners for the remainder of my life. And then there is the hip replacement. My vices were heavy duty running and cycling for decades. The small amount of rowing that I now do is a mere drop in the bucket compared to those activities.

[Bob S.]

Well, I know of a case where it happened twice - to the same man, if you define killing loosely. Recently I described the first time, as I was a witness to it. Our sixth seat went into cardiac arrest just after the end of the race. In previous years heart stoppage was regarded as proof of death, so in outdated terms, he was killed by the effort expended in that race. With modern knowledge and equipment, he was revived and eventually recovered to the point where he was rowing again. He lasted another three years and resumed rowing, only to go into a second cardiac arrest just as he and his mates we're docking their 4- at the end of an ordinary workout. He was in his mid-sixties at the time and had been rowing since his teens. He was well aware that he had a serious heart condition. It was an electrical imbalance of some sort and often a heart monitor was useless to him. A few years before that time, he had retired from a very stressful job on his physician's advice. One could say that rowing killed him, but it had also been his salvation for 10 or 15 years and just about everyone agreed that it was the way he would have wanted to go. Another member of that same eight from the race died much the same at the end of a practice session. In his case, as well, rowing probably kept him going longer than he might have if he had remained a couch potato. He was in his late seventies and had been in a 1952 Olympic eight. As far as I know, there had been about a 40 year gap since his participation in that event and his resumption of rowing in master's events. Again, other club members agreed that he probably wanted it that way as well.

Bob S.

[Galeere]

Gammmmo and Bob do point in the right direction: Most people do not want to be reminded on the consequences of their doings. Ergateers (or any other sportsmen) who love to race (and win races even if it is only their own PB) most likely would not trade their performance with 2,3 or 5 years less longevity. The same is true for cigar or whisky connoisseurs or for people with great experience and knowledge of the entries in the Gault Millau.
At least I fell sorry for anybody who would live his life concentrating on his/her longevity alone. On the other hand and as it´s not only longevity we are talking about but general well-being there is alway room for some sort of compromise. IMO 60-120min of HIT-training per week is well within a reasonable compromise (I consider the same to be true for one or two cigars per week or oner or two after-training beers). - Cheers Hardy