Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[G-dub]

SD - 3x20' quite labored for the pace and HR. Feet up rest of day.

[aussieluke]

Still a nice row Glenn. You aim for pace or watts on these rows? I found watts mentally easier and more consistent.

Starting to miss those long low and slow ones already! Meant to be my rest day tomorrow but as I only had time for 8k today I'll be sorely tempted to do a long easy 'recovery' very ut2 row if the free time presents itself!

[jackarabit]

@ Glenn: Re: Paul's Law

Paul Smith's "Law" isn't. Actually an empirically-determined heuristic or rule of thumb. I saw a post from a few yrs. back which suggested that double distance, add 3~7" better describes the experience of a broad range of "athletes" from weekend warriors to top competitors. Bob Spenger has said that possible 2k time is best interpolated between paces of distances both shorter and longer than 2k. Makes sense as this is precisely the training approach we're using--an approach from both directions--the pincer attack. Those who develop both power and endurance simply do better on the "tweener" 2k.

[jackarabit]

My Navel & Welcome To It department: Damn, do I have to row today! I think I have to 1) buy new mattress, 2) shave ears, 3) renew my subscription to Yachting. So much to do!

[G-dub]

@ Glenn: Re: Paul's Law

Paul Smith's "Law" isn't. Actually an empirically-determined heuristic or rule of thumb. I saw a post from a few yrs. back which suggested that double distance, add 3~7" better describes the experience of a broad range of "athletes" from weekend warriors to top competitors. Bob Spenger has said that possible 2k time is best interpolated between paces of distances both shorter and longer than 2k. Makes sense as this is precisely the training approach we're using--an approach from both directions--the pincer attack. Those who develop both power and endurance simply do better on the "tweener" 2k.

Interestingly, though, the 10K last night is almost dead on what it should be based on my last 2K. I mean within less than a second on the overall time. So I think the numbers say something about the 5, but it comes down to dealing with lactate, as John says, in the end and we shall see how this short fat guy does with that! Looking at the same Pauls Law spreadsheet for 6K based on last 2K, my recent 1:54.8 is a full split slower than what it "should" be, so I may struggle most in that middle distance space.

[Kxthor911]

Hey guys, I have a more specific question today. I'm wondering why the BPP does not involve cycles like the PP does. I understand that y'all are rowing more than us BPP guys but you were in better initial shape as well. Should we BPP guys have a week that we cycle lite as well just to give our bodies a chance to rest up? I would think that it may help prevent any more illness or injury. I realize we are following something specific but if we end up sick or hurt we will have to stop none the less. Opinions?

[G-dub]

Still a nice row Glenn. You aim for pace or watts on these rows? I found watts mentally easier and more consistent.

Starting to miss those long low and slow ones already! Meant to be my rest day tomorrow but as I only had time for 8k today I'll be sorely tempted to do a long easy 'recovery' very ut2 row if the free time presents itself!

Luke, I mostly do the steady days by feel. Usually I will feel out the first 20' then for some reason I enjoy trying to match it each other 20'. If it's a continuous piece, I just keep brining the splits down until it feels right for the day. But I use pace instead of watts. Always have done. Maybe I'll try looking at the watts screen once. I also tape over the heart rate now and look at it at the end more as an observation.

[G-dub]

Hey guys, I have a more specific question today. I'm wondering why the BPP does not involve cycles like the PP does. I understand that y'all are rowing more than us BPP guys but you were in better initial shape as well. Should we BPP guys have a week that we cycle lite as well just to give our bodies a chance to rest up? I would think that it may help prevent any more illness or injury. I realize we are following something specific but if we end up sick or hurt we will have to stop none the less. Opinions?

I've never done the BPP, but I think that going light when you feel you need it makes total sense. It is one of the things I cry about in the PP, I think there should be a fourth week that does what you are saying and allows for a de-load. Life ends up doing it for us usually though. For instance, I can only do one hard day next week due to work and going to the beach on the weekend, so it tends to work out anyway. But if I were you I would do what your body and mind is telling you. This is a long term activity hopefully and there is no sense burning out before you really get started!

[Kxthor911]

Hey guys, I have a more specific question today. I'm wondering why the BPP does not involve cycles like the PP does. I understand that y'all are rowing more than us BPP guys but you were in better initial shape as well. Should we BPP guys have a week that we cycle lite as well just to give our bodies a chance to rest up? I would think that it may help prevent any more illness or injury. I realize we are following something specific but if we end up sick or hurt we will have to stop none the less. Opinions?

I've never done the BPP, but I think that going light when you feel you need it makes total sense. It is one of the things I cry about in the PP, I think there should be a fourth week that does what you are saying and allows for a de-load. Life ends up doing it for us usually though. For instance, I can only do one hard day next week due to work and going to the beach on the weekend, so it tends to work out anyway. But if I were you I would do what your body and mind is telling you. This is a long term activity hopefully and there is no sense burning out before you really get started!

Thanks for your thoughtful response Glenn. I started rowing in May and have taken every 4th or 5th week off (doing a bunch of really slow paced meters or taking more days off). I have not had a week off since probably the end of July though. I might take one in two weeks when I have to rotate to day shift. Getting up at 4:30am being on my feet all day and getting home at 6:30pm doesn't make for a very entergetic row anyways. We will see how I feel when it comes to it. October 3 is the week I'm thinking about.

[Kxthor911]

The only problem is most of the BPP guys are around the same week so I would like their opinions as well.

[gooseflight]

An Olympic sculler told me once 2 seconds off a PB is huge

To an Olympic sculler of course it is. The faster you are the harder it is to go faster because the watts/pace curve is exponential. At mere mortal paces 2 secs is not so huge and gains come more easily.

[mdpfirrman]

The only problem is most of the BPP guys are around the same week so I would like their opinions as well.

Honesty, same thing Glenn said. Really you need three rows a week to be ready for the PP later - a shorter distance interval set, an intermediate interval set and a hard distance piece. Especially if you started out going too hard on the one distance piece in week one and you're trying to match it or better it, I'd take it easier as needed. I read over the BPP today a bit -- I honestly would hate doing it for the reason you mentioned - not enough recovery. I think it's more geared to getting race ready in a hurry. Toward "race" season, whatever that means to everyone, you do typically do more harder sessions and less easy recovery sessions -- so my guess is that's why it's designed the way it is - very little recovery. If you guys are doing a race in the Winter, fine, try to do it written. If you, however, are just trying to get a base for rowing and looking to improve performance then I personally think you'd get more out of it by doing recovery rows as needed. Recovery rows aren't taking the day off. They are easy to moderate. You should be working a bit, just not too hard. It should be like you're breathing but not gasping for air. On a scale from 1 - 10 (ten being the hardest), you're working at around a 4 or 5. Glad your girl is OK Nick too!

Nice PB Glenn!!

I know I'm not fully caught up but there's been a ton going on in the thread.

[G-dub]

One thing about the PPB that I read in it but doesn't seem to be practiced is that the distance row is about extending distance each week and not distance AND intensity (speed). But I may be wrong. Adding distance creates a stress and then you double dip when you also try to go faster. If it is getting hard, which is understandable, it may be that the distance row isn't being done right from an intensity standpoint.

[bisqeet]

Rest day according to PetePlan...
Yep...
12 km and change in an eight
3 place on our race
75 eights raced today (not 3 from 75, but third in our group)
What did you do on your test day?
Fun

[mininick]

One thing about the PPB that I read in it but doesn't seem to be practiced is that the distance row is about extending distance each week and not distance AND intensity (speed). But I may be wrong. Adding distance creates a stress and then you double dip when you also try to go faster. If it is getting hard, which is understandable, it may be that the distance row isn't being done right from an intensity standpoint.

To answer Kxthor911 and G-dub, I don't think that there is anything wrong with the BPP, but I do think there is a an important distinction between the BPP and the normal PP:

The PP is all about cycling to push yourself harder each time, with an inferred allowance to listen to your body and not push too hard in the SS rows three times a week (8k-15k). The BPP is all about learning how to push yourself but also learning how to self-limit and begin to learn our boundaries. For week 3, Pete says of the third row:

"Don’t worry if these sessions feel harder some days and you don’t make your target."

Sometimes us BPP guys, including me, need to listen to the first two words there - "don't worry". Especially in rows 1 and 3 it's not about the times or keeping our target pace. It's about getting the meters in, building a solid aerobic base on which we gradually build further. Sure, in an ideal world we'd make our target pace each row but our bodies may not respond that quickly to this new regime. It may just be a bad day, or it may be that we need to readjust our targets down a little.

G-dub is right. It shouldn't be about both increasing distance and intensity, certainly in these early stages. I may end up having to listen to my own advice to not worry and readjust my targets in a few weeks. I wasn't happy enough with my first 5000m to consider that the start of my BPP. So the next row I pushed harder and that was good enough to be acceptable (to me) for BPP W1D1. But then in W1D3 I felt good and pushed harder and that 2.17.8 split is my target each time now. It's going to get hard. I might have to relax it a little when the distance goes up (and up!).

Self limiting and listening to Pete's advice to really focus on technique should hopefully prevent the injuries. I worry about that, too. The great thing about this forum is that it feels like our individual progress is part of a team effort, with people supporting us to reach our goals. But I'll bet everyone here will also support us when we don't make our targets, too.