Chad's Accusations ... See My Post Before Voting!

[[old] cbrock]

No, I believe Chad did not accuse Dwayne of cheating.<br /><br />Chad started off in his first post stating the following:<br /><br />"Dwayne Adams Fake or Real"<br /><br />"Is there any proof"<br /><br />"Not accusing him of cheating"<br /><br />"A poll to see if I am the only doubter"<br /><br />"Nothing personal or any offence meant"<br /><br />Firstly, I believe that it was quite improper for Chad to nominate Dwayne in person. <br /><br />Secondly, the personal nature of the debate and subsequent language was quite offensive.<br /><br />However I have a view, which I know is not shared by at least 50% of the audience that if you are going to put yourself out there in the public arena and post times that are equivalent to the best in the world, then you must be prepared to back those times up, if questioned, either by providing substantive proof or preferably by competing in the public arena.<br /><br />Each of us is perfectly entiled to maintain the position that we have no obligation to substantiaate any of our times or compete publicly.<br /><br />However, if you want to be recognised as the holder of the best two or three times in your age group then I would suggest that this view is no longer compatible with that philosophy.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris <br /><br />

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-cbrock+Jan 21 2006, 11:07 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(cbrock @ Jan 21 2006, 11:07 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->No, I believe Chad did not accuse Dwayne of cheating.<br /><br />Chad started off in his first post stating the following:<br /><br />"Dwayne Adams Fake or Real"<br /><br />"Is there any proof"<br /><br />"Not accusing him of cheating"<br /><br />"A poll to see if I am the only doubter"<br /><br />"Nothing personal or any offence meant"<br /><br />Firstly, I believe that it was quite improper for Chad to nominate Dwayne in person. <br /><br />Secondly, the personal nature of the debate and subsequent language was quite offensive.<br /><br />However I have a view, which I know is not shared by at least 50% of the audience that if you are going to put yourself out there in the public arena and post times that are equivalent to the best in the world, then you must be prepared to back those times up, if questioned, either by providing substantive proof or preferably by competing in the public arena.<br /><br />Each of us is perfectly entiled to maintain the position that we have no obligation to substantiaate any of our times or compete publicly.<br /><br />However, if you want to be recognised as the holder of the best two or three times in your age group then I would suggest that this view is no longer compatible with that philosophy.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Chris:<br /><br />All well and good, but what you've mentioned here is not the way the game is played by current rules. As I've said before, hate the game, not the player.<br /><br />Chad essentially asked the question, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" by doing what he did with the poll. Any way one answers, Dwayne is tarnished.<br /><br />-- MP<br />

[[old] cbrock]

[quote=mpukita,Jan 22 2006, 11:53 AM]<br />[quote=cbrock,Jan 21 2006, 11:07 PM]No, I believe Chad did not accuse Dwayne of cheating.<br /><br />Chris:<br /><br />All well and good, but what you've mentioned here is not the way the game is played by current rules. As I've said before, hate the game, not the player.<br /><br />Chad essentially asked the question, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" by doing what he did with the poll. Any way one answers, Dwayne is tarnished.<br /><br />-- MP <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Mike,<br />If your question was "Is the poll instigated by Chad, by insinuation, in fact questioning Dwayne's Reputation", my answer would have been Yes. I may have even answered Yes to Tarnished.<br /><br />I also said that I believe it was inappropriate to use Dwaynes's name.<br /><br />I answered NO because I do not believe Chad accused Dwayne of cheating.<br /><br />The "current rules" need to be improved. I and many others have suggested some ways and means of doing this.<br /><br />I hope your comment about hating the game not the player was not directed at me. I have never "played the man" in my life and certainly did not comment on Dwayne.<br /><br />My posts have been about flaws in the verification process and suggesting other method's of substantiation.<br /><br />I stand by my position that if you want to present yourself as the best in your age group and in doing so are quite happy to take the public admiration attached to your acheivements then that action it is incompatible with a philosophy of not being required to substantiate your times.<br /><br />I do agree however that I would have preferred the opportunity of commenting on these questions to have been raised in another context.<br /><br />Best of Luck at Boston!.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris

[[old] mpukita]

[quote=cbrock,Jan 22 2006, 12:25 AM]<br />[quote=mpukita,Jan 22 2006, 11:53 AM]<br />[quote=cbrock,Jan 21 2006, 11:07 PM]No, I believe Chad did not accuse Dwayne of cheating.<br /><br />Chris:<br /><br />All well and good, but what you've mentioned here is not the way the game is played by current rules. As I've said before, hate the game, not the player.<br /><br />Chad essentially asked the question, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" by doing what he did with the poll. Any way one answers, Dwayne is tarnished.<br /><br />-- MP <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Mike,<br />If your question was "Is the poll instigated by Chad, by insinuation, in fact questioning Dwayne's Reputation", my answer would have been Yes. I may have even answered Yes to Tarnished.<br /><br />I also said that I believe it was inappropriate to use Dwaynes's name.<br /><br />I answered NO because I do not believe Chad accused Dwayne of cheating.<br /><br />The "current rules" need to be improved. I and many others have suggested some ways and means of doing this.<br /><br />I hope your comment about hating the game not the player was not directed at me. I have never "played the man" in my life and certainly did not comment on Dwayne.<br /><br />My posts have been about flaws in the verification process and suggesting other method's of substantiation.<br /><br />I stand by my position that if you want to present yourself as the best in your age group and in doing so are quite happy to take the public admiration attached to your acheivements then that action it is incompatible with a philosophy of not being required to substantiate your times.<br /><br />I do agree however that I would have preferred the opportunity of commenting on these questions to have been raised in another context.<br /><br />Best of Luck at Boston!.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris <br />[/quote]<br />Chris:<br /><br />By asking the question the way he did, Chad insinuated that Dwayne was a cheat. That's clear ... unless one wants to whitewash and make excuses. This debate has nothing to do with how you, or anyone else, "feels" about the verification process. That's not what Chad asked about. He asked about Dwayne personally.<br /><br />-- Mark

[[old] cbrock]

[quote=mpukita,Jan 22 2006, 12:35 PM]<br />[quote=cbrock,Jan 22 2006, 12:25 AM]<br />[quote=mpukita,Jan 22 2006, 11:53 AM]<br />[quote=cbrock,Jan 21 2006, 11:07 PM]No, I believe Chad did not accuse Dwayne of cheating.<br /><br />Chris:<br /><br />All well and good, but what you've mentioned here is not the way the game is played by current rules. As I've said before, hate the game, not the player.<br /><br />Chad essentially asked the question, "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?" by doing what he did with the poll. Any way one answers, Dwayne is tarnished.<br /><br />-- MP <br />[/quote]<br /><br />Mike,<br />If your question was "Is the poll instigated by Chad, by insinuation, in fact questioning Dwayne's Reputation", my answer would have been Yes. I may have even answered Yes to Tarnished.<br /><br />I also said that I believe it was inappropriate to use Dwaynes's name.<br /><br />I answered NO because I do not believe Chad accused Dwayne of cheating.<br /><br />The "current rules" need to be improved. I and many others have suggested some ways and means of doing this.<br /><br />I hope your comment about hating the game not the player was not directed at me. I have never "played the man" in my life and certainly did not comment on Dwayne.<br /><br />My posts have been about flaws in the verification process and suggesting other method's of substantiation.<br /><br />I stand by my position that if you want to present yourself as the best in your age group and in doing so are quite happy to take the public admiration attached to your acheivements then that action it is incompatible with a philosophy of not being required to substantiate your times.<br /><br />I do agree however that I would have preferred the opportunity of commenting on these questions to have been raised in another context.<br /><br />Best of Luck at Boston!.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris <br />[/quote]<br />Chris:<br /><br />By asking the question the way he did, Chad insinuated that Dwayne was a cheat. That's clear ... unless one wants to whitewash and make excuses. This debate has nothing to do with how you, or anyone else, "feels" about the verification process. That's not what Chad asked about. He asked about Dwayne personally.<br /><br />-- Mark <br />[/quote]<br /><br />And with respect Mark, that's the problem with your poll as well.<br /><br />That's not what your poll asked.<br /><br />You said Accuse not Insinuate.<br /><br />It's a bit like murder and manslaughter.<br /><br />The result is the same but the charge carries a much lighter penalty.<br /><br />There may be a strong case that Chad has insinuated that Dwayne is a cheat, he did not accuse.<br /><br />A lot of respected posters have posted No to this poll for that reason. I would doubt that any including me agree with the way it was done.<br /><br />I do appreciate the intent of your poll was to address a perceived injustice and for that you should be congratulated.<br /><br />Regards,<br />Chris<br /><br /><br /><br />

[[old] haboustak]

<!--QuoteBegin-Citroen+Jan 21 2006, 11:54 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Citroen @ Jan 21 2006, 11:54 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Carl Henrik+Jan 21 2006, 04:46 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Carl Henrik @ Jan 21 2006, 04:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And he is an American so no hiding behind language difficulties. (Don't try to stick this one on Europe  ) <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That is clearly NOT true. There was one of Chad's items where he spelled humour with the U. That is something you folks would not do. I'd say he's English, Irish, Australian or a New Zealander. He's a native English speaker although his spelling (or typing) isn't very good.<br /><br /><a href='http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?a ... st&p=51026' target='_blank'>http://concept2.ipbhost.com/index.php?a ... p=51026</a> <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I voted yes on the poll. I feel it's pretty obvious reading even the first few posts on the original thread that despite his claims otherwise it was nothing but a character assassination aimed squarely at Dwayne. If it had been anything else, or if there had been even a modicum of respect for Dwayne he would have worded the poll otherwise. <br /><br />In addition to the language differences, thanks to his incessant posting it's pretty obvious to me that's he's only writing between 6AM and 11PM GMT. This isn't something anyone in the Pacific, Central, or Eastern timezones would do. I can't say he's not an American, but I can say he's certainly in England.<br /><br />Mike

[[old] Graham Benton]

This is a poll - some people vote yes, some people vote no but people should not be criticising, questioning or debating people's votes. It discourages people from even posting in the first place if they know that people are going to jump on their opinion. I don't see why there would be a need for anyone to post twice on this thread (whoops, this is my second post!) ... state your vote and your reasons and that should be the end of it. There should be no need to comment on other people's reasons. You might think they are wrong but everyone is entitled to their opinion as essentially there is no correct answer here as different people have clearly interpreted Chad's comments in different ways.

[[old] Chad Williams]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 21 2006, 04:50 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 21 2006, 04:50 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 21 2006, 04:21 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 21 2006, 04:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Someone made a comment that the poll may well be fixed by people making up new users just to cast a vote, and people attack my character, what about that person? do you find that acceptable? Looks like you do as nothing was said about that. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><b>It was 2 people that made the accusations.</b><br /><!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jan 20 2006, 07:22 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 20 2006, 07:22 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The most strange part about the poll results is that the "No" votes seem to be very quiet individuals, not even a single line post of "Bogus for sure".  So I guess that this is a lot like most Internet polls, "Bogus for sure." <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-ehagberg+Jan 19 2006, 02:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ehagberg @ Jan 19 2006, 02:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe your poll is fake?  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Are they calling me a liar and a cheat!!! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><b>Anyone going to answer this question?</b><br /><br />

[[old] mpukita]

Very close poll. Forget the totals on the top of the screen for a moment. For those that were willing to identify themselves for this, the totals now are 7 YES to 9 NO. Pretty close.<br /><br /><b>YES</b><br /><br />1) mpukita<br />2) PaulS<br />3) Porkchop<br />4) Darren C<br />5) Carl Henrik<br />6) PaulH<br />7) haboustak<br /><br /><b>NO</b><br /><br />1) hjs<br />2) Citroen<br />3) Graham Benton<br />4) Drago<br />5) Sir Pirate<br />6) Becz<br />7) TomR/the elder<br />8) gw1<br />9) cbrock<br /><br />-- Mark<br />

[[old] gw1]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you feel Chad accused Dwayne of CHEATING? <br />  <br />Yes, I believe Chad did accuse Dwayne of cheating [ 12 ]  [38.71%] <br />No, I believe Chad did not accuse Dwayne of cheating [ 19 ]  [61.29%] <br />Total Votes: 31 </td></tr></table><br /><br />At 9.12 EST this was the updated results! Not that close!

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 22 2006, 03:44 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 22 2006, 03:44 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 21 2006, 04:50 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 21 2006, 04:50 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 21 2006, 04:21 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 21 2006, 04:21 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Someone made a comment that the poll may well be fixed by people making up new users just to cast a vote, and people attack my character, what about that person? do you find that acceptable? Looks like you do as nothing was said about that. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><b>It was 2 people that made the accusations.</b><br /><!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jan 20 2006, 07:22 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 20 2006, 07:22 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The most strange part about the poll results is that the "No" votes seem to be very quiet individuals, not even a single line post of "Bogus for sure".  So I guess that this is a lot like most Internet polls, "Bogus for sure." <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><!--QuoteBegin-ehagberg+Jan 19 2006, 02:02 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ehagberg @ Jan 19 2006, 02:02 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Maybe your poll is fake?  <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Are they calling me a liar and a cheat!!! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><b>Anyone going to answer this question?</b> <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Now I truly understand the meaning of "delicious irony." <br /><br />If this post is not a joke (and I assume not from the absence of suitable smilies and from the fact that it was bumped to solicit an answer after being ignored for 11 or 12 hours), then I have to ask how the shoe fits now that it's on the other foot. <br /><br />Hmm, is there an accusation there? An insinuation? A chance innocent remark? A simple statement of fact misconstrued by you in reading it? <br /><br />I certainly did not understand those posts as accusations, but perhaps others did. I, personally, understood the larger posts as pointing out a potential flaw in the polling system, not necessarily directed at you. Certainly there are people who have expressed strong views about your character recently, but they do have freedom of speech after all. <br /><br />But, since you bring it up, perhaps, even though you have no obligation to do so, Chad, you could proffer evidence that you are not a liar and a cheat. You certainly have every right to do so to maintain your reputation (which, I gather, you feel these posts sully). That would certainly put the matter to rest, wouldn't it?<br /><br />Or, maybe we could conduct a poll to see what people feel about the subject.

[[old] mpukita]

<!--QuoteBegin-gw1+Jan 22 2006, 10:29 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(gw1 @ Jan 22 2006, 10:29 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you feel Chad accused Dwayne of CHEATING? <br />  <br />Yes, I believe Chad did accuse Dwayne of cheating [ 12 ]   [38.71%] <br />No, I believe Chad did not accuse Dwayne of cheating [ 19 ]   [61.29%] <br />Total Votes: 31 </td></tr></table><br /><br />At 9.12 EST this was the updated results! Not that close! <br /> </td></tr></table><br />gw1:<br /><br />Read my second post and my last post again. The totals I showed were correct. I'm only counting verified votes to avoid ballot box stuffing which it looks like may have happened here. <br /><br />-- Mark

[[old] Porkchop]

<!--QuoteBegin-PaulS+Jan 21 2006, 06:32 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Jan 21 2006, 06:32 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Chad Williams+Jan 21 2006, 09:03 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Chad Williams @ Jan 21 2006, 09:03 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->12 years in the UK. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />As a P.O.W. ? <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Sshh, Paul, it's too painful to talk about (but not too painful to mention in order to seek the moral high ground and justify special exemption from standards of common decency in his exchange with Mark on the other thread). There's nothing wrong with that, is there?<br /><br />PS. I have no personal experience and offer no opinion (NO OFFENSE INTENDED and NOTHING PERSONAL), but I have read that some people have been critical of UK cuisine. Maybe that's what made the experience so painful?

[[old] Ericr]

Although I don't care really, I would say 'No'. Chad is questioning Dwayne's times, but he did not accuse him of cheating. Dwayne himself one time opened a thread where he questioned some irregular times on the rankings. I think anybody is entitled to question very fast times when there is no direct proof those times were rowed.

[[old] gw1]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I'm only counting verified votes to avoid ballot box stuffing which it looks like may have happened here. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I see your point but I thought the whole point of the greater issue was that of trust.<br />The forum often has anonymous users that vote! Are we not to trust any of them? <br /><br />FB