Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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S-man
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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by S-man » September 1st, 2016, 7:48 am

Dean, the old skiff looks amazing - thanks for sharing that. Never seen one of the sliding riggers before - I guess it goes faster because there is no slowing the boat down with poor technique at front stops?

Piers, you should definitely get on the water if you can. Even better in a crew, nothing beats that feeling of gliding swiftly along with the crew all rowing together - perfect harmony, well for about half a dozen strokes in our case before we get out of kilter again :lol:

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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by S-man » September 1st, 2016, 7:58 am

Couldn't get to an erg yesterday as I was away with work so did the 4 x 2k today instead of the SS. Wasn't looking forward to this, not sure why, maybe the 2k distances have too many bad associations for me!

W2D3?4? 4 x2k r5' Aiming for a second slower than the 5 x 1500, so 2:13 target pace

2:12.9 r23
2:12.8 r24
2:12.7 r24
2:11.9 r25
Avg 2:12.6 r24

Usually row in the evenings, but did that this morning and struggled for the first 2, and it took me until the 3rd interval to wake up :shock:
Not sure how the rest of the morning crew do it, but it definitely felt harder than an evening workout.
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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by JohnAd » September 1st, 2016, 8:03 am

bisqeet wrote:4th felt bad - HD

cd a HM @2:15 HR cap ~1:35,00
Shame about the HD, but that is quite some CD to go for afterwards :shock:

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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by S-man » September 1st, 2016, 8:06 am

JohnAd wrote:
bisqeet wrote:4th felt bad - HD

cd a HM @2:15 HR cap ~1:35,00
Shame about the HD, but that is quite some CD to go for afterwards :shock:
:lol: Agreed, only in Dean's world could that be called a CD

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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by mdpfirrman » September 1st, 2016, 9:35 am

jackarabit wrote:Kxthor, Pete Beginner (3 days and two additional days optional) is what Gordon, Joseph, and Goldenbarry are doing. That is what you'll be doing if you join in, what you'll be doing if you don't. If you choose, you have mates ready to hand waiting. But you're free to decline, of course.
Exactly Jack - that's what I meant Kxthor. We have 3 that started PBB around a week and a half ago. If you look at where Gordon, Joseph and Goldenbarry are on the progression, they are nearing the two week mark on the PBB. You can either start at the beginning (since PBB is more of a linear plan than a circular loop like the PP) or skip forward a bit to be doing the rows in sync (more or less) with them. That's part of the appeal of this thread - multiple people doing the exact same workouts only a day or two apart - going through the agony (and triumphs) together. It's more enjoyable when you're not the only one doing it.

@ Glenn - nice work on the rating! Sensational.

@ Jack - that's a very strong 6K! That sub 8 isn't going to be a problem at all for you.

@ Rohan - Nice 6K also! Very strong.

@ John - You snuck in your 4 X 2000 - very consistent effort (although perceived messy on your end - the numbers don't lie).

@ Sanz - Very nice on the 4 X 2000. Well done!

@ Dean - great boat. That's amazing! I was kind of intrigued by the foot straps. You have to wonder whether or not that was designed to do barefoot and it's like a shoe. There's been a lot of talk on the threads about the best shoes to wear on the erg. Most people use minimalist shoes or lifting shoes because the erg was designed for the average gym person to use potentially running shoes but old school folks like to have less "cushion" and support it seems. Just made me think about that whole discussion. I'd love to get OTW eventually!

Regarding the session - I wouldn't worry about the last interval (especially with the half marathon CD). You are a BEAST on distance. Speed work is a different kind of hard. I would suggest instead of not finishing it next time, stop, take a few breaths next time, then finish it and record the time. I did that last year a couple of times where I sent so anaerobic that I literally could not catch my breath. Now if it's something else (like injury) obviously don't finish it. But you wouldn't have been able to do a half if it was injury, so I'm guessing it was you went to anaerobic on the set (just a sign you were pushing the envelope a bit too hard - which is fine). Certainly not a failure, just a learning experience. At least that's what everyone reminded me of (Greg was kind enough to tell me that last year when I crashed and burned - the occasional crash and burn teaches us boundaries the hard way and sometimes we learn new heights by testing that).

I know I've got more catching up to do. The PBB guys are killing it! I'm more of an Eagles guy too Gordon! Too bad they're all dying or going to jail (like Meisner)!

Thanks for the kind words about my dog - the vets showed up and spent around 5 minutes just looking at my Joey in disbelief. They said for a 15 year old dog that weighs nearly 90 lbs they couldn't believe how good he looked. He's still strong too (I helped hold him while they cleaned up his hair and nails - it's a 2 person - meaning strong men - job to do it). He looks great now!

Oh, I did my SS yesterday (not much to report there - 45 minutes @ 2:17 - I was feeling tight so really just took it easier). Had to cut it shorter than I like (I try to do an hour or at least 55 minutes) because I had a late call right before lunch with a client.
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bisqeet
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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by bisqeet » September 1st, 2016, 10:17 am

S-man wrote:Dean, the old skiff looks amazing - thanks for sharing that. Never seen one of the sliding riggers before - I guess it goes faster because there is no slowing the boat down with poor technique at front stops?..
yes, no wobble on recovery.
also you are not pushing the body weight on the slide - just the rigger and on the recovery you use your arms mostly to move the rigger. the weight difference is notable.
plus transferring your body weight along the slide alters the weight distribution on the skiff, altering the point of gravity so it dips (slightly).
it is supposed to eliminate those momentum checks (stop/starts moment of inertia) and bobbing.
not allowed in competitions tho, not sure about long distance / transatlantic stuff tho - would be a great advantage in efficiency.

@mike -
barefoot i think (or socks) - no room for anything else i'm afraid.
even my trusty finve finger shoes would have been a squeeze (i removed them)
on the the HD you are quite correct. Should have limped home.
Dean
2020 Season: 196cm / 96kg : M51
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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by jackarabit » September 1st, 2016, 10:20 am

In memory of your late lamented ride, Dean, and for stinkin up the place with the HD, custody of the car air freshener in the seasonally-appropriate "scull/skull" homonymic motif is hereby transferred to Dean Didion for minimum period of 1 week, along with a litre of shower gel for those relaxing moments apres half marathon. Enjoy.
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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by mdpfirrman » September 1st, 2016, 11:43 am

@ Jack - threads are way less entertaining when you're not in them!!

@ Dean - I feel a bit embarrassed pointing this out to you Dean because you are such a warrior. I know your goals of HM's is like 100 for the year (if I remember correctly). I'm a bit worried about you doing this plan and still finishing the 100 mark for the HM's too. I certainly don't think you have any problems at all with lots of meters (you can tolerate way more than probably any of us on this thread). I am a bit concerned about you doing that massive amount of meters along with the PP. Normally, people do one or the other, not both. In most periodization plans, you start out with more meters and then when you move toward the season (in our case indoor season for non OTW guys like me), you start to replace the distance with intensity (exactly what PP is - less volume, more intensity). Just be careful with the volume and if you choose to continue the volume (which you might be very able to handle), please take it easy!

I'm positive you've grappled with this mentally already if I know you. You're a pretty smart guy. Sometimes just someone else pointing out the obvious helps. I know you wanted to do the PP to work on speed. I honestly don't think you're going to lose much aerobically by going lighter on the long rows. I think your aerobic fitness is pretty darn good (and probably not going to get a lot better because you're near max potential now I would think with all the work you've already put in). Only in your world is a 2:15 HM a light day, but I know that is light for you! So it looks like you're already doing this which is great.
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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by jackarabit » September 1st, 2016, 11:51 am

Headsup for Kxthor911 (Nick) and possibly up the chain of chaos to Mike: Nick you have a nibble on your BPP Group: Anyone Interested thread in training subforum. Bloke name of Patrick says he's interested. If you can't respond, think either Mike or myself should grab him before he lose interest. You still there Mike? Advise please. Jack
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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by jackarabit » September 1st, 2016, 12:15 pm

Apropos of Dean's affinity for HMs, Hartmut DIcke and I both did a HM as hard distance for 1st week of Pete Plan Summer 15. It was a one-time lark and I didn't consider doing another second week. In my case, it was probably ill-advised use of energy. Hardy is an hombre mui fuerte and may or may not have done others in conjunction with or in addition to the plan. I know of one megameters rower who rows as much as 10 hrs. a day during C2 challenge months and claims it relieves the symptomatic distress of fibromyalgia. I haven't heard Dean make any claims that mega-erging is a component of a personal therapy but think we should remember that there are many reasons to exercise besides a need for speed, heart health, and endorphin surfing. I think we have to respect Dean's choices even if there is some reduction in the energy available for immediate purposes. Nuf said.
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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by bisqeet » September 1st, 2016, 1:18 pm

mdpfirrman wrote:@ Jack - threads are way less entertaining when you're not in them!!

@ Dean - I feel a bit embarrassed pointing this out to you Dean because you are such a warrior. I know your goals of HM's is like 100 for the year (if I remember correctly). I'm a bit worried about you doing this plan and still finishing the 100 mark for the HM's too. I certainly don't think you have any problems at all with lots of meters (you can tolerate way more than probably any of us on this thread). I am a bit concerned about you doing that massive amount of meters along with the PP. Normally, people do one or the other, not both. In most periodization plans, you start out with more meters and then when you move toward the season (in our case indoor season for non OTW guys like me), you start to replace the distance with intensity (exactly what PP is - less volume, more intensity). Just be careful with the volume and if you choose to continue the volume (which you might be very able to handle), please take it easy!

I'm positive you've grappled with this mentally already if I know you. You're a pretty smart guy. Sometimes just someone else pointing out the obvious helps. I know you wanted to do the PP to work on speed. I honestly don't think you're going to lose much aerobically by going lighter on the long rows. I think your aerobic fitness is pretty darn good (and probably not going to get a lot better because you're near max potential now I would think with all the work you've already put in). Only in your world is a 2:15 HM a light day, but I know that is light for you! So it looks like you're already doing this which is great.
thanks mike,
yes - im halfway to the 100 mark.
i guess i'm a little addicted to sport - its not uncommen for me to do 2 sessions a day. i will usually do a HM @ut2 in the morning, then cycle to OTW and do a 10-15km stint and cycle back.
the sprints im finding hard having done no fast stuff recently. Todays session showed that - I did a 5k just before the start (I didnt actually want to start until 2. rotation) which was 18:02 ~ 1:49,5/500 so the target wasn't too far fetched and on line with Petes reccomendation.
I had a bout of food poisoning on tuesday, spent the most of the day either spewing or crapping through the eye of a needle (mushrooms - not the magic ones unfortunately). Felt better yesterday so i did some OTW. thought i could manage today, but obviously bitten off more than i can chew. no harm done.

the plan was to do the hard stuff on alternating days to my OTW training - the SS stuff being HM distance.
I did change my hard stuff routine from last year. - all my intervals are now "rest" and not as previously done - active rest (distance based on how far i would row for the rest perios @ 2:30/500p) - i dont think i ever did a session under 16k on the PP...

I usually listen to my body, so I should be ok. thanks for the consideration.
Next week is a break anyway - going to the baltic :)

have a few comps tho when i get back on my rest days - 2 in september - 19km and 12km in a quad :)
Dean
2020 Season: 196cm / 96kg : M51
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~seven days without rowing makes one weak~

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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by Kxthor911 » September 1st, 2016, 1:19 pm

Hello gentlemen and ladies. Sorry I have been spotty here, it happens a bit when I work nights (6pm-6am shift.) I responded to Patrick in the other thread, and asked everyone else to please ignore it that has had a chance to look at it.

My intro:

I'm Nick from Louisiana, I started rowing consistently four months ago back in may. I have not made an attempt to get faster, do intervals or do steady state rows. I have mainly just been rowing slow and enjoying it. So I have a few goals, some I'll probably get and some I won't but I'm not sure of how to place them really at this point. I'm 32 years old, 5-10 and about 177 pounds. I'm currently not very strong, but looking to change that. I feel thats why we are all here, to get better and stronger.

My main goal is I would like to pull an 8 minute 2k, but I have not tried this at a free rate so I'm not sure what I'm 100% capable of. I did do a 5k on August 26 and pulled a 22:26 after I had been at work for 12 hours and not very fresh. I just want to learn a lot and hope sharing some information with you guys will help me. I'm going to do some warm up today and then jump in with the 6x500. I will see where the other guys that are doing the beginner pete plan are and jump in with them after I have a starting point. Thanks Jack and Mike for you help and getting me started here.
Nick Nunez 5-10 178 lbs
PB - will be determined after BPP

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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by mudgeg » September 1st, 2016, 1:40 pm

Just finished Day 3 of the BPP. Unlike @Joseph I found this pretty brutal. Plan was to target an average 2:16.6 split (split from Day 1 5k). Managed 2:16.8 but at what cost? Right leg completely seized at around 2500m and I had to back off completely for a minute or so. Finished the piece but completely spent as a result of the 6 x 500m intervals the day before which I hit pretty hard.
Gordon, 67, 6', 205lbs

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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by Phxrow » September 1st, 2016, 1:59 pm

mudgeg wrote:Just finished Day 3 of the BPP. Unlike @Joseph I found this pretty brutal. Plan was to target an average 2:16.6 split (split from Day 1 5k). Managed 2:16.8 but at what cost? Right leg completely seized at around 2500m and I had to back off completely for a minute or so. Finished the piece but completely spent as a result of the 6 x 500m intervals the day before which I hit pretty hard.
I may be new to rowing, but I have a background in fitness having been very into training from 16-about 27 because of high school and college sports.

Recovery time is going to vary from person to person and I would hate to say it, but at 57 this is especially true. Shoot, I can tell the difference between my late 20's and now. If you're gassed after your rows and feeling it in the evening you need to be careful. It may be the workouts are too intense for your current fitness level or you need to recover and prep better. So I would ask you a few questions to help you think about how to better prepare and recover from these workouts:

1) Are you getting at least 8 hours of sleep every night?
2) Are you eating the right foods in the evening and during the day before your workout?
3) What is the timing of your meals before and after your workouts?
4) Are you drinking enough fluids during the day and especially after your workouts?
5) Are you stretching before AND after your workouts?

I'm sure there are others I can ask, but you see my point. Now that I'm in my mid thirties I am much more focused on the before and after of my workout than I ever have been. The days I don't eat properly I see significant differences in rowing. Today I make sure to eat a big breakfast, snack, pre-workout meal, workout, post workout meal, snack, dinner and lots of sleep. Proper hydration is extremely important throughout the day. IF you are doing all of this and struggling it's a fitness level issue relative to the workouts you are trying to perform. I have rowed for almost 8 months straight 5 days a week before starting the beginners plan and it's still challenging.

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Re: Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

Post by Kxthor911 » September 1st, 2016, 2:07 pm

Phxrow wrote:
mudgeg wrote:Just finished Day 3 of the BPP. Unlike @Joseph I found this pretty brutal. Plan was to target an average 2:16.6 split (split from Day 1 5k). Managed 2:16.8 but at what cost? Right leg completely seized at around 2500m and I had to back off completely for a minute or so. Finished the piece but completely spent as a result of the 6 x 500m intervals the day before which I hit pretty hard.
I may be new to rowing, but I have a background in fitness having been very into training from 16-about 27 because of high school and college sports.

Recovery time is going to vary from person to person and I would hate to say it, but at 57 this is especially true. Shoot, I can tell the difference between my late 20's and now. If you're gassed after your rows and feeling it in the evening you need to be careful. It may be the workouts are too intense for your current fitness level or you need to recover and prep better. So I would ask you a few questions to help you think about how to better prepare and recover from these workouts:

1) Are you getting at least 8 hours of sleep every night?
2) Are you eating the right foods in the evening and during the day before your workout?
3) What is the timing of your meals before and after your workouts?
4) Are you drinking enough fluids during the day and especially after your workouts?
5) Are you stretching before AND after your workouts?

I'm sure there are others I can ask, but you see my point. Now that I'm in my mid thirties I am much more focused on the before and after of my workout than I ever have been. The days I don't eat properly I see significant differences in rowing. Today I make sure to eat a big breakfast, snack, pre-workout meal, workout, post workout meal, snack, dinner and lots of sleep. Proper hydration is extremely important throughout the day. IF you are doing all of this and struggling it's a fitness level issue relative to the workouts you are trying to perform. I have rowed for almost 8 months straight 5 days a week before starting the beginners plan and it's still challenging.
Thanks for your helping and time in posting this guide. I'm doing a few of these but not all. I'm working on eating better and I probably need to focus more on my post workout stretching. Off to hit my first session now.
Nick Nunez 5-10 178 lbs
PB - will be determined after BPP

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