Pete Plan Group - Startup Aug 20th thru 22nd

[Goldenbarry]

I also started the Plan for beginners today. I bought a Concept2 for my son and started on it myself in January 2015. My son is a 16 year old and is down to a 6:37 2k! I have not attempted a structured plan and am excited that I discovered this group.

I completed my 5k in 21:41 at 21 SPM for a 2:10.1 split.

I'm looking forward to training with this group.

[S-man]

still found time to get out in a single in the evening - not a lot, just thrills and drills on the river.
we have a few racing singles, but my favourite is one from 1930 - beautiful wood - recently remodded for "nice/userfriendly" sculls - called the beaver.
its also wide enough so my fat ass doesnt get wobbly...

unfortunately, we had a beginner start yesterday - so he got it. I got a 1960 classic-wooden "Empacher" ~19kg
not as forgiving, but fun.
got about 90 minutes out, before - so another not PP activity.

They may be obsolote now, but nothing beats the feel of a classic wooden hulled boat runing smoothly on the water

@Gordon, Phxrow and Goldenbarry, welcome to the training group. You guys are off to a great start on the BPP. Wish I'd had the sense to do some structured training when I first started rowing

[bisqeet]

I also started the Plan for beginners today. I bought a Concept2 for my son and started on it myself in January 2015. My son is a 16 year old and is down to a 6:37 2k! I have not attempted a structured plan and am excited that I discovered this group.

I completed my 5k in 21:41 at 21 SPM for a 2:10.1 split.

I'm looking forward to training with this group.

great stuff..

if your son doesn't row yet, get him signed up at the nearest club.
with a 2k time like that, it would be a waste to shame -
probably top 20-30 in the world for that age group...

[Pie Man]

Great 4 x 2k times being posted and the PBB entrants have set themselves off to a good start, I did around 10 weeks of it and started at a very similar pace, getting to a sub 20:00 5k within that time.

Thanks for all the advice on the 4 x 2k, glad I asked as looking at the sessions some much better ergers than me have put in at a pace I was thinking of as my target. Which was just setting myself up for a world of hurt and failure.. Will go out at around 1:58 and see how I feel.

BTW does anyone else look at the rest clock counting 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and wish it would just stop for a little bit longer...

[mdpfirrman]

@ Goldenbarry - Great to have you. 3 doing the PBB now - that's great! Your son is doing great. My first indoor race last year - the most exciting event was two high school boys (who were seniors) battling it out on the 2K finishing right near the same time - 6:20 or so... For your son at 16 that's impressive.

@ Dean - really sorry about your car. That sucks.

@ Jack - LOL on the getup - I'm not much better.

[G-dub]

Pie, we probably spooked you a little. I can't recall your 5 X 1500 split, nor how you felt on it, but one way to start the 4 X 2 is about a second higher than that and see how it feels. Nothing wrong with being more conservative either. I'm a chicken, but I also would set yourself up for the last rep rather than testing waters too much in the middle. That is when it can be real lonely and the rest interval clock truly does go by too fast!

[Pie Man]

Thanks Paul for the advice I will take the steady easy.

Thanks Glenn, my 5 x 1500 averaged out at 1:55.5, last rep was 1:53, and I wasn't a pretty sight at the end of it. I will start at 1:58, see how I feel and perhaps approach 1:57/6/5 and then use the last one to see if I have much left in the tank.

[jackarabit]

Piers, all rest periods, including the overnighter, are, by design, too short for full recovery of one physiological system or another. Counterintuitive it may seem but the length of interval rests in the Pete 2k plan are quite generous. Why are the rest periods in the Pete Beginner Plan shorter than those in PP? One would think that folks just starting their training would need more rest than seasoned indoor rowers going into competition.

Last summer when Glenn was just starting the PP group, Nik Fleming, a Brit world record holder entered the thread to object that 3:30R is "too much rest" for 8x500 and a flat two minutes what is required. So there was a bit of back and forth and an American age group record holder finished it off with "You need the rest that you need." A tiny weed in a crack in the sidewalk that shouldn't have been and takes some "explaynin" as Ricky Riccardo said to Lucy. Here's an excerpt from another well known prep plan for 2k comp, the Indoor Sports Services, UK, Interactive 2000m Programme, yours for the light it casts on that troubling weed:



"Recovery Time Between Intervals

Full recovery between intervals can be considered as taken place when the heart rate has fallen to warm up level (twice resting rate). The intensity of interval-training can be increased by working to 90% or even 80% of full recovery.

Resting Heart Rate = 56bpm.
Warm up rate = 112bpm.

100% recovery = 112bpm go again
90% recovery = 118bpm go again.
80% recovery = 123bpm go again.

The closer the recovery is towards 100%, the more the training will tend towards improving Power, while the closer the recovery is towards 80%, the more the training will tend towards improving lactate tolerance.

Reduced recovery is most effective at the beginning of an intensive interval-training period when intensity takes precedence over quality. Close to competition quality takes precedence over intensity and therefore full recovery is advisable.
Recovery Time Between Intervals

Full recovery between intervals can be considered as taken place when the heart rate has fallen to warm up level (twice resting rate). The intensity of interval-training can be increased by working to 90% or even 80% of full recovery.

Resting Heart Rate = 56bpm.
Warm up rate = 112bpm.

100% recovery = 112bpm go again
90% recovery = 118bpm go again.
80% recovery = 123bpm go again.

The closer the recovery is towards 100%, the more the training will tend towards improving Power, while the closer the recovery is towards 80%, the more the training will tend towards improving lactate tolerance.

Reduced recovery is most effective at the beginning of an intensive interval-training period when intensity takes precedence over quality. Close to competition quality takes precedence over intensity and therefore full recovery is advisable."



Tracing that logic through the final sentence, we see why the training principle of relatively short rest periods is NOT ONLY for beginners (neophytes) but for seasoned indoor rowers moving into their competition training but not yet on final approach.

My experience is that in the latter intervals of PP sessions, I'm only reaching 65-70% CV recovery. Shorter rests in BPP would see me out I'm certain! Of course, the lactate bath of BPP is tempered by the lower number of interval reps and the overall lower volume of that plan.

Enjoy the lavish rests afforded the "accomplished" indoor rowing competitor! As John Adcock can attest, beginnng AT the beginning is equally challenging.

[mdpfirrman]

Thanks Paul for the advice I will take the steady easy.

Thanks Glenn, my 5 x 1500 averaged out at 1:55.5, last rep was 1:53, and I wasn't a pretty sight at the end of it. I will start at 1:58, see how I feel and perhaps approach 1:57/6/5 and then use the last one to see if I have much left in the tank.

Here's the thing I learned about the PP doing it a while this year. It looks daunting (and it is). Overthinking it will get you two things - too pumped up about it or psyched out about it. Think of it as data and just go execute.

I just did the 4 X 2000 a few weeks ago. I improved on my goal (1:57.3 by a bit - 1:56.8 actual). Perhaps it was a good day that day. I'll use the 1:56.8 today (going off at 1:57.0 as my target for the first two and then see how I feel from there), but if I don't hit it, I'll finish - however ugly it gets. That data is just to prevent you from going too fast or not challenging yourself. Marston did an amazing job (while he admittedly borrowed ideas for his plan from Wolverine) in pacing suggestions. They are uncannily accurate. If you exceed too much, you blow up. If you go about too cautiously, it should show up in the final interval. That's why Jack having a mini "blow up" on his reps yesterday isn't a failure, it was just Jack pushing the envelope a tad too much (or not taking his "recovery days" easy enough).

That's what we mean when we say that PP is self correcting. After one cycle, you have the proven "data" you need to move on and hopefully improve. If you're not improving, it could mean you're too tired or pushing too hard. It will challenge you though and make you mentally tough if you ever want to compete in a race. I think that's the real benefit. We could all use a little more mental toughness in all our endeavors...

[Pie Man]

After one cycle? You mean I have to do this again!!!!!!!!!

It's all good, as you say as long as I finish the times will feed back in to the next cycle, and I will start to really get to where my pace is.

[jackarabit]

. . . as long as I finish the times will feed back in to the next cycle,

YES! An HD has bad consequences--for the plan and the psyche.

[Bloodbuzz Corio]

Loving the discussion in this thread - such a great mix of experience and enthusiasm with the odd match struck to bring some excitement!

PP Cycle 1, Week 2, Day 4 - SS 8k, 35:03.7 (2:11.4 pace)

So about 1" faster pace than I was doing the SS last week. Was wearing HRM but had the display on my phone off so as not to be distracted by it at all - average of 136 and max of 146 actually both a couple of beats lower than my recent SS samples.

[G-dub]

After one cycle? You mean I have to do this again!!!!!!!!!

It's all good, as you say as long as I finish the times will feed back in to the next cycle, and I will start to really get to where my pace is.

This, to me, is a period of the program to pay attention to. We are still working off adrenaline and positive peer pressure. And we are also finding out that we have a little more fitness than we may have thought or vice versa. Finally, the 4 x 2 and the 4 x 1 always get the juices flowing and we all want to lay what we have out there for them so that we can get the good cheers from our mates. But, easy to say and harder to do, its a good time to really listen to how you are feeling and act accordingly. It would seem to me that doing 3 cycles and finishing the workouts with a smile would be better than doing 1.67 cycles and feeling plowed under. I did the latter before and it is not a good feeling! It is hard not to take each one of these on as a race and Jack is right, HD's can really mess with your head. Forcing pace, to me, is not productive in the long run.

[jackarabit]

Wk 2: SS#2
40'r20 strapless
Pace target: 60% 2k watts (2:27)
Df115
Pace actual: 62% 2k watts

Done as <just row> so pulled a bit longer to get an even 9k.

[mdpfirrman]

Great advice Jack / Glenn! The SS day is the day (I feel) you have to be most careful with. It's easy to feel really zippy on those days and just let pride or stupidity get in the way of recovery. We've ALL done it. You pay for it though sooner or later. I'll gladly swallow my pride on the SS days and let it all hang out on the other days. Nice SS day Jack! Well controlled!

Speaking of well controlled - Had a nice 4 X 2000 session (at least as nice as that can be!).

Target (last PP 2000 X 4) was 1:56.8 -- I was a bit worried I'd fail on this one with that seemingly a fast time for me.

7:47.2 / 1:56.8 / 28
7:47.0 / 1:56.7 / 28
7:45.1 / 1:56.2 / 28
7:41.8 / 1:55.4 / 28

Avg - 1:56.3 / 28

My right elbow was a bit sore (from pullups the other day I think) - that might be a bad idea. This was challenging but I always felt in control of my breathing and stroke rate. Definitely pushed that last rep but that was all I could manage. Happy with that.

Taking the Mrs to a Bonnie Raitt concert tonight - love that rockin' Grandma! Looking forward to some down time.